philnie

Hi Guys,

Asa result of this great forum, I've discovered the White's ML specific DWB'sforum(http://dwbs.proboards28.com/index.cgi) and have spent the last couple days reading over there.At this point it's feeling like information overload to be sure.

I'm a WA state deer hunter (white tail/ mule) this year and if all goes well expanding to elk next year. I've got an Ultra Mag on the way - what else do I need to do and / or order that'll get me up and shooting when my new baby arrives in a few days?

I know I need to try various bullet/powder combinations to determine what my new ML likes for chow, but any/all input into first steps simple loading/cleaning recipies will help build confidence and easemy road to ML nirvana! The Ultra Mag shipped today - so I'd liketo place orders necessary supplies over the next couple days too ...

- powder: Goex or T7?2F or 3F? Note thewhole 2F vs. 3F thing is confusing here ...
- conical bullets- Dead Centers, No Excuses?
-the famed hybrid Power Belts?
- or perhaps the sabotBuffalo SSBs, or??
- CCI #11 magnum caps correct?
- I recall reading whereby 2ea 1/16 wads are required for the large conicals, correct? If so, where do you get these things?
- to lube or not to lube, that is the question?
- cleaning supplies / tools - no clue!
- spare White parts? #11 Breech plug, "spring something" next, #11 hammer if it doesn't come with the Ultra Mag package, and ??
- thanks to sabotloader I know to get some wood finish/wax
- anything missing?

I'm sorry for asking all these questions - if there's a FAQ or WP (White Paper) on these topics just point them out and I'll dig in reading, etc ...

thanks again guys!
phil

sabotloader

philnie

Got to give Cayugad credit for this one, he is the one that forst came up with the idea... but I tought you were getting synthetic stocks - if you are no need of the wax - you are sealed for al weather and all temps... At some point you may want to bed the action with fiberglass into the stock - but that is down the road and really not to difficult.

How long does it take you to get to the tri-cities? would you be interested in driving down one weekend day here in the near future? As soon as cascadedad gets his - I am going to try to make a trip over to Kennewick to work with him a bit getting him set up for shooting. Figured we would make a trip to Sportsmans Surplus to pick up supplys them go shoot the heck out his...

This is a great sport and i love it as I am sure you will when you get started... I pretty much learned on my own some 7/8 years ago - it can be done, but I think it would be a lot less expensive and easier to see what some people with experiance do - not that I am an expert but I feel it sure works for me...

Good luck - you are going to love it...

cayugad

Hope this helps answer some of your questions.

I would recommend Goex 3f, Triple Se7en fffg, or Pyrodex P. The Whites like a faster burning powder.

460 & 495 grain No Excuse Conicals shoot excellent out of my Ultra Mag. I have also been shooting the Bullshop conicals and the 500 grain is showing a LOT of promise. I've only shot them once but they worked excellent with 70 grains of Triple Se7en fffg and some wads between the conical and the powder.

Personally, I'd save my money and not bother with the powerbelts. Most of them are undersized in the first place for the smaller BPI barrels. Whites are a true .504 so you want a bigger conical.

The 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB's with 100 grains of Triple Se7en shot very well out of my Ultra Mag as did a number of other sabot combinations.

CCI Magnums or 1075 Dynamite Noble are my favorite. The 1075's are my preferred choice in caps.

Track of the Wolf sells them. Or you can buy them in 1/8th size and just use one of them.

Most of the conicals you purchase come pre-lubed like the No Excuse, Great Plains, and Bullshop.

Butch's Bore Shine for Black Powder, Birchwood Casey #77, are both excellent solvents. You will also need some bore brushes, and a stronger solvent that removes lead and even plastic. Birchwood Casey Bore Solvent will do that.

The rifle comes with a 209, #11, and musket breech plug/nipple. I also bought a spare #11 breech plug and spare spring. I got mine through Sunrise Archery.

Underclocked

powder: Goex or T7?2F or 3F? Note thewhole 2F vs. 3F thing is confusing here ... Or Pyrodex or Swiss or Triple7 I would probably go the 3F grade in all but the Triple7 (although some favor it as well). Swiss and Triple7 will be the hottest of those powders - recommend you try about 70 grains by volume to start, the work up slowly until accuracy peaks - Mine likes the weighed equivalent of 82 grains by volume of FFg Triple7. Of course you will need some sort of volumetric powder measure to begin with - the TC clear model with the pivoting funnel top is a pretty good one.


- conical bullets- Dead Centers, No Excuses? - take a look here http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1471827 You will find a pic of Bull Shop's conicals down the page a bit (sorry, it's fuzzy). I would recommend you get a selection of the 460 grain NEx, the 500 grain NE373, the 560 grain RCBS, and the 620 grain MT NEW. Bull Shop's prices are unbeatable and he will assemble a sampler package at a fair price. Just email him. http://muzzleloading-bullets.com/page3.htmlalso offers some very good bullet at 460 and 495 grains for the .504 (actually .503 sized). Dave at NoExcuses sends the bullets along with an invoice. You then pay him.

-the famed hybrid Power Belts? Waste of money and time

- or perhaps the sabotBuffalo SSBs, or?? SSBs might be okay - Cayugad may have tried some in his.

- CCI #11 magnum caps correct? Those will work but there have numerous reports of failures. If you can locate RWS (Dynamit-Nobel) 1075 or the new Remington 11s - might be a better bet. The RWS are surely the best. You are going to want a capper - http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/cart/asp/select_item.asp?item=03326

- I recall reading whereby 2ea 1/16 wads are required for the large conicals, correct? If so, where do you get these things? Just order the 1/8" nitro card wads from TOTW WAD-510-A (CHEAP and work great). http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?catId=2&subId=37&styleId=11 8&PageSize=25&Page=5 scroll down.

- to lube or not to lube, that is the question? Bull Shop and NoExcuses come lubed.

- cleaning supplies / tools - no clue! Cleaning patches (do a search for Southern Bloomer patches), range rod is always nice. http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/cart/asp/select_item.asp?item=18974 Get a couple of 50 caliber bore brushes and a 12 gauge brush to clean the threads.Cain's Outdoor http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/cart/asp/item_index.aspis a good place for rods and rod accessories. You'll want a patch puller http://www.cainsoutdoor.com/cart/asp/select_item.asp?item=18211

Pick up a roll or two of Teflon tape from a local building supply and some Slick50 ONE grease if you can find it. If not, make sure to pick up a good anti-seize grease (choke tube grease is fine). A bottle of Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine is a wonderful thing to have as well as a good gun oil/preservative such as Breakfree CLP, RemOil, or Sheath. If you have a 1/4" socket set, you'll likely find the 3/8" socket on an extension works better than the supplied breechplug tool. Other than that, you can mix up some swabbing solution later from common ingredients and you might want some pipe cleaners, toothpics, old toothbrushes....


- spare White parts? #11 Breech plug, "spring something" next, #11 hammer if it doesn't come with the Ultra Mag package, and ?? That oughta to do it. I think you mean action spring. I'm sure a spring could be ordered from McMaster that would work though.

- thanks to sabotloader I know to get some wood finish/wax


- anything missing? targets!

Disassemble and thoroughly clean your rifle at the first opportunity after receiving it. Familiarize yourself with the few parts and how they go together. When you put it back together, install the trigger first.

Underclocked

late as usual.

cayugad

sabotloader

philnie

Here is what the SSB's look like....

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&id=0020974 214556a&navCount=2&podId=0020974&paren tId=cat200005&navAction=push&catalogCode=I G&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat200 005&hasJS=true

One of the hottest bullets out there is the 250 grain SST/Shockwave, but of course in Washington you can not use these - Lead bullets will require you to move to heavier bullet - but for hunting whitetail the 375 is really a good weight. SSB's are also a great bullet.

philnie

Hi Guys!

Thanks so much for all this wonderful information.

sabotloader- in a word yes! Learning from someone doing it in front of you is a great way to learn, rather than trial and error on my own ... I expect to receive my new ML this coming week so will be ready to drive to the tri-cities area thereafter. Basically, I purchased the first two rifles I could actually get confirmation of them being in the store! They just happened to be laminate stocked ... believe it or not, I've been considering getting a composite one too after reading more about them here and on Doc's site. If I do, I'll only shoot one of them and get rid of the other one ...

sabotloader please confirm I can buy powder and #11 caps at Sportsman Surplus and I'll buy them there - saving some shipping/hazmat fees in the process.

Thanks to underclocked for the Cain's Outdoors link- they have lots of ML gear/supplies I can order via the internet!

Ok - I'll also ignore the undersized Power Belts, buy some Hornadys and MMP HPH-12 sabot combos for cost effective target practice / learning, add powder volume measure and powder flask to the list, and also pick up cleaning tools and supplies.

More questions (of course)! Loose powder vs pellets? Isn't there a relationship between bullets used (conicals / sabots) and powder choice - related to building/maintaining chamber pressure I recall? Also, I'm concerned I don't have ballistics charts for any ML loads I set upon - how do you guys work out game sights/setting without a chrono? I don't have a chrono but can get to ranges with at least a 200yd line ... which I assume will be the max I'll feel confident taking game using iron sights w/ the ML in WA. I'm guessing I'll use all your guys advice on hunting loads w/ typical bullets and powder charges, then just figure it'll be close enough to what I'm shooting given paper holes from 25yds to 200yds, right?

So much to learn here - thanks again for all your help cayugad, underclocked, and sabotloader! I'm off to see the Shohomish Valley ML Club shoot over at the Marysville Rifle Club this afternoon. I'm hoping to see someone shootMLs, etc ...

cheers,
phil

sabotloader

philnie

You can buy them at Sportsman and again I would recommend the D Noble #1075+

The HPH-12's you will probably not be able to find at sportsmans got to:

www.mmpsabots.com

or what i buy is Nosler sabots which are HPH-12 but a lot less money...

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/product/nosler/nosldes/NoslerSabots.htm

They are back order right now but will have them shortly...

Loose powder is far more economical + hunting in really cold weather and trying to ignite pellets could be a problem. I would go with T7-3f powder. Chamber pressure is more related to the fit of the sabot or conical.

I can run ballistics charts here - I'll send you and example of one for a 300 grain Speer Gold Dot. I do have a chrono and have shot several bullets through it for velocities.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sabotloader/300gr.jpg

Cascadedad should be getting his two this coming week - i think he is headed to Sportsmanstoday with a shopping list to get supplies then we will setup a weekend to meet. He has a small 60/80 yard area to shoot in near Benton City - we really do not need the distance as much just the time to shoot.

I just got back in from a run shooting my White this morning - it really is fun.

talk to you later...

cayugad

I took my White Ultra Mag out and wanted to try Goex 3f, Swiss 2f, and Triple Se7en 3f. I also wanted to adjust my scope. I was only at 70 yards (too lazy to move it from yesterday) and overall I think Goex 3f does an excellent job and is most cost effective for me as well.




The center bull was me making adjustments to the scope for the final time. I was shooting both Triple Se7en and Goex 3f since they shoot very close to each other. I was only using 70 grains of powder with wads and 500 grain Bullshop Conicals. Iwant the rifleto be on all the way out to 100 yards (although I will never get to shoot that far most likely) So at 70 yards I adjusted the scope to touch the top of the bull.

Then I tried some Triple Se7en without wads to see if it made a difference. I was a little disappointed in the group in the upper left corner of the target.

So I loaded some Swiss 2f and boosted the charge to 85 grains of powder with a 495 grain Bullshop conical. I also used wads since this rifle seems to shoot best with wads. I swabbed the barrel clean and it hit where I thought it would in the lower right corner bull. Then I shot two for effect on the dirty barrel and it laid them right next to each other but high for some reason.

I then went back to Triple Se7en with wads and 460 grain Bullshop Conicals,and was much more pleased with the group it shot in the lower left corner of the target.

So as a final, I shot 70 grains of Goex 3f, 2 wads and a 460 grain BullShop Conical. I was real pleased with that three shot group.

If they have Triple Se7en 3f or Goex 3f that is the powder I would grab. Pyrodex P would also work all right. And if they have some bore buttons/wads you might want to get a pack of them as well if you want to shoot conicals.

If you want to be a polymer chunker like Sabotloader, then I would get the Triple Se7en. I've shot sabots with excellent results even with T-7 2f out of the White.