BPI Products
03-02-2006, 04:19 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 123
BPI Products
Just a quick hey, I'm new to this site, but I've been visiting it for about a year now. There is alot of you regular guys that seem pretty knowledgeable on hear and I enjoy getting tips and reading your stuff. It seems most people dont care to much for the BPI products. CVA,Winchester and Traditions. I myself own a Black Diamond, Knight Bighorn, TC Omega, CVA Optima, and the Winchester Apex. I live in Utah and have thousands of acres to shoot whenever I want to. I personally shoot between 3-4 days a week. Most of this is with a muzzleloader. All of my muzzleloaders are very good shooters. The one I shoot the most is the Apex because no matter what I stick down it its the most accurate of the five. Now I know the barrels are always the question on these guns but I've shot over 300 rounds through this gun. Most of the time I'm shooting 130 grains of loose 777 2f. Anything over that and my accuracy goes to crap and that is with any of my guns. I've taken apart completely with the help of a very talented gunsmith both the Omega and Apex. Both him and me beleive the Apex is a beefier put together gun. You cant compare barrels by just looking at them like you can with rest of the gun. Oh by the way my two most favorite bullets are the 300grnSST and the 300grnXTP. I have red dots on all five rifles because you cant have any magnification here in Utah during the muzzleloader hunts.I shoot winchester 209 primers.
03-02-2006, 06:35 AM
#2
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 714
RE: BPI Products
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID14/867.html
It was a .45 cal using 110 gr of 777 and a 275 gr Powerbelt. It still was overcharged since CVA/Winchester rifles have a 100 gr Max charge of loose powder. It's only the pellets you can use 150 gr.
It was a .45 cal using 110 gr of 777 and a 275 gr Powerbelt. It still was overcharged since CVA/Winchester rifles have a 100 gr Max charge of loose powder. It's only the pellets you can use 150 gr.
03-02-2006, 08:29 AM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: BPI Products
Just the fact you are shooting 130 grains of loose Triple Se7en 2f (IMO) you are doing a couple things that could lead to disaster. Your powder charge is much greater then what is recommended in the manual of my CVA Staghorn. Perhaps your manual states different levels. Mine says 100 grains maximum of loose powder. Although the manual also states my rifle is able to shoot 150 grains of pellets, look at a Hodgdon's Powder site and you will discover the do not recommend anything more then 100 grains of powder.
130 grains of loose Triple Se7en with the 15% additional power level as compared to Pyrodex or Black Powder pushed that load somewhere near 149.5 grains of conventional powder in strength. Again, this is considered too much powder for that rifle in loose form.
My CVA Staghorn also has a size on the sabots you should use and I believe that is 300 grains. You're right on the edge of the table with some of those loads. So it would be interesting to learn just what kind of stress and barrel pressures a load like that is reaching. I am no engineer and do not have the mathmatical abilities to figure such a thing but it would be interesting if some one has that information.
I believe there was a report of a Kodiak blowing up a while back while loaded normally. Isn't the Kodiak and the Apex about the same thing? Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I'd be careful shooting those kind of loads.
I am glad the rifle is shooting well for you.
130 grains of loose Triple Se7en with the 15% additional power level as compared to Pyrodex or Black Powder pushed that load somewhere near 149.5 grains of conventional powder in strength. Again, this is considered too much powder for that rifle in loose form.
My CVA Staghorn also has a size on the sabots you should use and I believe that is 300 grains. You're right on the edge of the table with some of those loads. So it would be interesting to learn just what kind of stress and barrel pressures a load like that is reaching. I am no engineer and do not have the mathmatical abilities to figure such a thing but it would be interesting if some one has that information.
I believe there was a report of a Kodiak blowing up a while back while loaded normally. Isn't the Kodiak and the Apex about the same thing? Anyway, what I am trying to say is, I'd be careful shooting those kind of loads.
I am glad the rifle is shooting well for you.
03-02-2006, 09:19 AM
#4
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 58
RE: BPI Products
Some time back I posted a link to the manual for the Winchester Apex. That document issues this note about powder charges.
I do own a CVA/BPI Kodiak and I love the gun. I shoot the magnum load of 3 50 grain pellets of Triple Seven for now. I have posted concerns about this load and decided that I might change when I get time and money to work up a load. With temperatures in the 80’s where I live it is time to think about fishing.
Note: All Winchester muzzleloaders are rated to shoot a
maximum of 150 grain equivalent of pelletized powder. The
maximum recommended amount of loose powder
(Blackpowder or approved substitute) is 100 grains by
volume. Never use any amount of smokeless powder.
maximum of 150 grain equivalent of pelletized powder. The
maximum recommended amount of loose powder
(Blackpowder or approved substitute) is 100 grains by
volume. Never use any amount of smokeless powder.
I do own a CVA/BPI Kodiak and I love the gun. I shoot the magnum load of 3 50 grain pellets of Triple Seven for now. I have posted concerns about this load and decided that I might change when I get time and money to work up a load. With temperatures in the 80’s where I live it is time to think about fishing.
03-02-2006, 01:00 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lake Saint Louis MO
Posts: 723
RE: BPI Products
Cayugad is right on the mark as usual, you are way over what is recommended in the gun. I have a Traditions Lightning Bolt that shoots 2 (50gr) pellets of Pyro with 250 gr Shockwaves and punches holes at 100yds. The manual says 100 max on pellets and 150 on loose. I do not use 150 and never will in that gun. You can shoot T7 pellets out of Tradition guns as you can only use 100 max, however t7 is 15% stronger so 80gr max on t7 pellets. I think Hodgen says you cannot mix pellets either such as 30gr and 50gr pellets. So if that is true you could shoot 3 (30gr) for a 90 gr charge or shoot a single 50 pellet. You would be surprised at what a single 50 t7 pellet can do at 50 yds. The main thing to remember is be safe and use good judgement. After all some of the best guns, caplocks have maximum ratings of 70 grains of powder and will outshoot some of todays guns. I sure like the Lyman Deerstalker in 54 cal with stainless barrel.
03-02-2006, 01:01 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: BPI Products
Original Wolfhound:
It was a .45 cal using 110 gr of 777 and a 275 gr Powerbelt. It still was overcharged since CVA/Winchester rifles have a 100 gr Max charge of loose powder. It's only the pellets you can use 150 gr.
It was a .45 cal using 110 gr of 777 and a 275 gr Powerbelt. It still was overcharged since CVA/Winchester rifles have a 100 gr Max charge of loose powder. It's only the pellets you can use 150 gr.
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-02-2006, 01:29 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: BPI Products
Original: Cayugad
My CVA Staghorn also has a size on the sabots you should use and I believe that is 300 grains. You're right on the edge of the table with some of those loads. So it would be interesting to learn just what kind of stress and barrel pressures a load like that is reaching.
My CVA Staghorn also has a size on the sabots you should use and I believe that is 300 grains. You're right on the edge of the table with some of those loads. So it would be interesting to learn just what kind of stress and barrel pressures a load like that is reaching.
That load would easily yield pressures in excess of 45,000 psi. There is no doubt in my mind the pressure EXCEEDED 45,000 psi. Also, with the same powder charge and weight of bullet a .45yields pressures which are roughly 66% greater than a .50 cal.
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-02-2006, 01:39 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: BPI Products
Hey cayugad,
I am confused about which load you were refering to, the one that blew up the ML or the one bdeather shoots. I was referring to the one that blew up. As far as bdeather's load, 130 grains Triple7 2f and 300 grain sabot? I can't say what the pressure _IS_, BUT I AM POSITIVE IT EXCEEDS 28,000 psi. IT IS UNSAFE, just as you pointed out.
Happy Hunting, Phil
I am confused about which load you were refering to, the one that blew up the ML or the one bdeather shoots. I was referring to the one that blew up. As far as bdeather's load, 130 grains Triple7 2f and 300 grain sabot? I can't say what the pressure _IS_, BUT I AM POSITIVE IT EXCEEDS 28,000 psi. IT IS UNSAFE, just as you pointed out.
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-02-2006, 03:02 PM
#10
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: BPI Products
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
Hey cayugad,
I am confused about which load you were refering to, the one that blew up the ML or the one bdeather shoots. I was referring to the one that blew up. As far as bdeather's load, 130 grains Triple7 2f and 300 grain sabot? I can't say what the pressure _IS_, BUT I AM POSITIVE IT EXCEEDS 28,000 psi. IT IS UNSAFE, just as you pointed out.
Happy Hunting, Phil
Hey cayugad,
I am confused about which load you were refering to, the one that blew up the ML or the one bdeather shoots. I was referring to the one that blew up. As far as bdeather's load, 130 grains Triple7 2f and 300 grain sabot? I can't say what the pressure _IS_, BUT I AM POSITIVE IT EXCEEDS 28,000 psi. IT IS UNSAFE, just as you pointed out.
Happy Hunting, Phil