sabotloader

PBHunter

Where is there a greater profit margin, inlines - traditional? I truly do not know but would this have something to do with it?

Is therea demand or is there no supply? With a very low supply it only takes one of two demanders - collectors - traditionalist to creat a an abnormally high price. If there were 500 Sennica's being offered what would the price be to a limited number of demanders?

It all goes back to the law of supply and demand. Can TC afford to tool up to make a new Sennica or something like it and only have a demand for 500 of them. How many can they make and sale to break-even and in there world it is really how many will it take to make a profit? Then how many can they expect to sale. The wonderful world of marketing knows these numbers and if they don't jive there is no product - then you are back to the custom shops filling a very limited number of orders.

And I would bet you their numbers are only a fraction of the gunsthat TCsales. I may be wrong but if Investarms and Perdioli were selling enough guns to gain more than 10% of the market share you might see TC gear up again. The last number I saw someplace and I think it was from Cabelas - traditional sales were 4% of their annual ML sales.

I wonder what the % of TC Hawkins sold is vesus % of Encore/Omega and other TC inlines might be. You got to know that TC is building enough Hawkins to meet the demand but the demand must not be enough to branch into other guns with all of those great old names they use to apply to them.

I think cayugad suggested that he believes there might be a swing back, I wonder when??? and what might cause this swing back?

Pittsburghunter

Some of it will be regulation the rest just interest in the sport I hope. Sorry I hyjacked my own thread because all this is mute unless the company moves forward more with support of all products even a loadiing jag if needed.

A couple years ago when I got my first shockwave bullets with the sabots that didn't fit it they made it right in less than a week. I guess I need to just look forward and hope they get better.

lemoyne

Perhaps some one, say one of the moderators should send them a copy of this thread. I have 5 TC's and am considering another cartridge gun. TC has the best products and warrantee which is why I stay with them.The last time I called their tech number I got some one who either had a problem or could not speak English well and had no idea of what I was asking. Lee

sabotloader

lemoyne

And I think the last time I called I did call Fox ridge Outfitters and they jumped through all my questions gave me direct answers and sent the part no problem. +++++ job.

cayugad

I think you will see a swing back to more traditional rifles because the more a modern inline shooter is exposed to the various elements ofthe black powder sport, the more they search for all kinds of rifles that are out there. All thetime I read of an strictly inline shooter suddenly getting a cap lock rifle and even a flintlock rifle. At first perhaps they do this more out of curiosity. But once they have pretty much mastered the inline aspect of the sport they always want to look and see what else is out there to do.

This is also the reason we see more and more traditional and re-curve bows coming back into the hunting roles instead of the compounds. Not that the re-curve and traditional stick bows are better, it is just some thing the user finds more exciting and hence engages in.

Also I think a lot of the modern inline rifles we now see hitting the market, in some areasare going to end up cutting the very throats of their muzzleloader seasons. As we get the modern inlines shooting 2400 fps and 250 yards. As we see rifles designed for 200+ grains of powder and more. As we see the smokeless powders hit the playing field. I believe some of the government representative that deal with the administration and regulationof game laws and hunting laws, willsuddenly step back in their stance.

For instance muzzleloaders in Wisconsin are legal in our shotgun only areas. This was done because the traditional muzzle loader's effective range in most people's hands was really no more then a shotgun with a slug barrel in competent hands. Granted they can use scopes on shotguns and muzzle loaders during the modern gun season. Scopes are not allowed during the muzzle loader season. These shotgun seasons were established because of population density in areas of the State around the larger cities. The idea was to control the ever increasing deer population while still providing a margin of safety by the use of less then long range firearms. I think there is the posibility that in the modern seasons of shotgun only areas, the State will suddenly come to the conclusion that the scoped muzzle loader shooting 150 grains of powder and a 200 grain Shockwave has too much range and will there for have to be removed. The trouble is you remove one muzzle loader you have to remove them all.

I am sure that is why they are not allowing scopes during muzzle loader season. And I have no problem with that. Every time you give one part of a hunting season an advantage the other areas scream. I can see the day when they will set limits on the amount of powder and the kind of projectiles in my state. When they start doing this and taking away the advantage of the inline rifle, more and more will turn to the traditional rifle.

sabotloader

cayugad

I also wonder what the percentage of us is that have discovered ML hunting and now hunt like I do with an ML all year. The center fires sit collecting dust. I would like to think it is not because i am old that i have made this choice - I would like to think it more of a challenge to be successful with a gun of limited capabilities. Because even the most modern ML will not do what a modern centerfire will do.

cayugad

I started hunting with muzzleloaders about 20 years ago full time. There was an occasional trip moose or elk hunting when I took the Ruger M77 7mm magnum instead. And some field hunts in the southern end of the state when I wanted meat for sure, I again too thelong range rifles out. Some of the shots we pulled off over picked corn fields were amazing.

When I just wanted to relax and have a good time I took the muzzleloaders. Especially when wandering the woods. I then started hunting areas of the State where if you are lucky. you might get a 50 yard shot. Here the muzzleloader really shines. I seldom shot more then once at a critter with a modern rifle and the same thing holds true with the muzzleloader. At the close ranges I encounter, I can poke a real pretty hole through them with a muzzle loader.

Just recently I started hunting my friends farm over hay fields. So now I take an inline rifle witha scope during the modern season and one of my better roundball rifles during the muzzle loader season...

I even talked and considered selling off the center fire and some of the shotguncollection but thank goodness I talk myself out of that at the last minute.

lemoyne

I am originally a muzzle loader hunter, the first gunI had was a left over from the civil war my Grand dad gave me. I had a double barrel 11 ga was the best phasent gun I ever owned of course I have 12 or 14 cartridge guns to they are fun to shoot and reload for to. Lee

rcgerchow

sabotloader-That's a very good question about how many people have turned to ML all season long. I originally started with a T/C Renegade 54 cal. and it basically extended my hunting seasons (doe tags), from there I went on to Lyman Cougar 50.cal inline and scoped and a 50 cal. CVA Mag. w/o scope. Both were still a pain to shoot and clean. Then we had late doe seasons in zone 3 and I bought a scoped slug gun. Now with cleaner powders, 209 primers, better accuracyand less hassle I am dumping the slug gun for zone 3 hunting and using theT/C Omegafor firearm season and ML season. Then depending who knows what may happen from there. Hey and thanks again for your info on the Omega i hopeT/C gets it together have always liked their firearms.
(zone 3 in south lower Mich-shotgun or ML only)

sabotloader

rcgerchow

I really do think shooting ML's is infectous - i started with a Lyman Trade Rifle 54 cal... and has grown something terrible. I really need to take an inventory - but I am afraid my wife might find it and want equal monies...