mouthcaller

I've read your posts and respect the knowledge and experience you have with BP rifles. I need some help finding a new sabot to load in my Omega Z5

I bought the gun this fall and have probably shot 40 or so shots in it thus far. I'm shooting the Hornady 250gr SST bullets with the black sabots that come with the bullets (MMP-12 I believe). I've shot three deer with the bullet this year and I am completely satisfied with their performance. All shots were compelte pass-throughs and the deer ran only 10-60 yards.

I am having a hell of a time starting these bullets. I bought a T-handle that I use with a long jag just to get the bullet started. This morning the temps were in the 30s and I thought that I would break the T-handle getting this bullet started after shooting the deer, and that was after swabbing with 50:50 alcohol / windshield washer fluid then a dry patch. Once it gets about halfway down the barrel it slides down OK, but that first foot or so is a real bear.

I've read some of your posts where you refer to the MMP sabots that are a little thinner. Is that the MPP-24??? I went to their website and surfed around and they say the MPP-24 is slightly thinner. I don't want to loose accuracy or velocity, but the force I'm having to put on the T-handle to seat this bullet is rediculous.

I am completely sure that the barrel is entirely free of fouling. I am maticulous to the point of being anal about cleaning. I clean it thorougly with the 50:50, then Birchwood-Casy borescrubber, then Sheath to protect from rust.

One more thing: do you (or anyone else) know if I can buy these Hornady bullets in bulk?

I greatly appreciate you opinion and assistance. Thanks in advance.

sabotloader

mouthcaller

Just ny thoughts and trying to give you the best information I can...

I really wish I could find a tight barreled Omega arounf here that somebody was using just I could conduct some experiments.

The 250 SST you are using PROBABLY does come with HPH-12 sabots - I can not get them down my Remingtons without pounding them down.

The HPH-24 is .002 thinner than than the HPH-12 and PROBABLY would go down your barrel with moderate pressure. The HPH-24 IS supplied with the Thompson Center Shockwaves which is the same bullet as the SST.
Thompson really wants you to use their product not Hornady's.

Your next alternative and an alternative for a second quick shot is to use the new Harvester "crush rib" sabot. I am almost positive they will work in a tight Omega - but again I do not have access to one - they are illegal here because we have to shoot percusion caps and have an open breech during ML season.

Velocity - you might and you may loose a little bit of velocity - but not enough to really notice -you velocity probably varies that much in just throwing your powder unless you are measuring powder. In my experiments - loading 100 grains by volume t7-2f loose with a MMP-HPH-24 sabot then loading a Harvester"crush rib" I loose about 100 fps - the worst i found across my chrono was 141 fps. And I got to tell you loading the "crush rib" was pretty much like loading a PowerBelt - it slid down with a minimal amount of pressure. We do not have to drive them down the barrel anymore. As you have probably saw in my posts - I do not use a short starter in loading any of my ML guns - inlines or sidehammers yet the velocities that I achieve are more than expected.

In discussions with Del Ramsey the new plastics (polymere) the design of the new cups andthe force of driving the bullet back into the sabot will create enough of a seal to make any difference in pounding itdown or pushing it down with moderate pressure (exceptin a Savage using smokeless).

I had heard at one time that Hornady was going to allow the purchase of bulk SST's - but so far I have not seen it on there web site and I have not called them for quite some time - but I know of know bulk sales at this time. I do not use the SST's or the Shockwaves so I am not the best source of information on them.

Hope some of this helps - I just wish you lived closer and could run over and we would go out to the rock set things up check the numbers with the different sabots. My other alternative is to go buy an Omega - but with what I have already then adding another that i couldn't use that might be the straw that broke the camels back... I had to shampoo the rug today to make up for my last trip to wal-mart and their ML supplies sale, but how do you pass up t7 for $8.50.

mouthcaller

Thanks for the thorough reply andanswers. If I am going to stick to these bullets then I suppose I need to get the MPH-12s. I would prefer to find another suitable bullet that I can buy in bulk for extensive practice this summer.

I shot another doe this morning (we're trying to take out some does on our lease). Same deal again, almost broke the ramrod getting the thing down the barrel after swabbing twice.

I've read good things about the barnes spitfires and expanders - may give them a try next year but wow are they expensive.

Thanks again for your response.

sabotloader

mouthcaller

You do not want the HPH-12's you want the HPH-24's..

If i might suggest - instead of shooting those fancy dan bullets - buy a box of Speer Gold Dots .452 - 45cal 250 grain HP's and a package of HPH-24's. You will love them and their performance on an animal will be outstanding. If you want to shoot a bullet that is better down range use the 300 grain .452 - 45cal Gold Dots. With these bullets you might need the 'Crush rib" in that omega, but if you are getting those 12's down then the 24's should go.

I shoot one expensive bulleta Nosler 300 grain Partition and that is for Elk - for white tail you really do not need those high dollar bullets - that's just my opinion. If you get a chance look atone of those bondedSpeer bullets you will not believe the cavity in the 250 and the 300 is has a great nose on it for a better BC - they are accurate and they are not that expensive.



Good luck

mouthcaller

Sorry for the confusion - HPH -24 is the one I want.

I think I'll give the gold dots a try. I read your post about them a few days ago.

I'm with you on the expensive fancy-dan bullets. I am after good performance on game with as much bloodtrail as I can get in a bullet that has a decent BC. Most of my shots are inside 100 yards, but the potential exits, depending on which stand and area I'm hunting, for shots as long as I feel comfortable shooting. Elk obviously aren't in my equation here in W. Tennessee, so my ML hunting is limited to whitetail.

I took a brief visit on the Speer website -what is the name of the bonded Speer 300gr bullet? Do you by chance have a link to it?

Thanks again Sabotloader.

Edit: I found them finally on the speer website.Here's the link: http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=7&s2=27

sabotloader

mouthcaller

Quote:

Detail

These are the 300 grain...

These are the 250's - deadly on deer but not as good long range ballistics - great to 150 yards

Sabots from here - Connie will probabaly answer the phone...

http://www.mmpsabots.com/





50 Cal. Rifle
.451 - .452 Bullet
Black HPH/24
240 - 350 Grains
240 - 300 Grains

Do not know how of this is going to show up when I post - right now it looks really neat - but I have my doubts

lemoyne

Mouth caller, I also have a new Omega[one of the walmart sale specials]it had fine burrs and sharp edges onthe riflings after I fire laped it not only loaded much better it also grouped better.
It also loves those 50/40 200gr. Shock Waves with 150gr. APP and the 250's with 100gr. Got groups under 1 inch which with a 2 power scope are acceptable to me. Good Luck Lee

mouthcaller

Sabotloader and Lemoyne

I ordered the HPH-24 sabots today from MPP. I plan on getting the 300gr Speer Gold Dots and some 240 gr. and/or 300 gr. Hornady XPTs and see which one shoots the best in my gun. Since I can order both these bullets in bulk it should make for a fun summer working up a load for this "new" Omega. I also plan to switch to loose 777.

Sabotloader - I would be interested in your opinion regarding the trajectory of the 250 vs 300 gr. Gold Dots. The 300 grain seems to have a big ballistic advantage and may, therefore, provide similar a similar trajectory despite an initial slower velocity compared the the 250. It should also carry more downrange energy if my hunch is correct.


Thanks again for all the help.

Tom

sabotloader

mouthcaller

Get 250 grain XTP's they are 45 cal - 240's are most often 44 cal.


You are right about the ballistics of the 300 grain Gold Dot...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/sabotloader/300gr.jpg

Check the projected down range energy of this thing - I think it is just you were expecting. plus the bullet is bonded...

But the 250 is deadly bullet on deer - the cavity is amazing and since the lead is bonded to the copper - it really make a effective bullet for penetration and stopping ability. The hydrostatic shock it creates is awesome...