TC209x50

I was helping a friend with his T/C Renegade .54 cal todayhe is having trouble holding better than a 5" group at 50 yards with open (partridge) sights. His setup has always been 100gr of FFFg Goex with a .531 Hornady round ball and a .010 patch. While this setup has proven effective for years and years taking including #2 in the state for ML in 1992 (Buckmaster magazine featured supershots winner) I know the rifle's capabile of more. I noticed that we could'nt find even a shread of a patch so I back it down to 80gr. and found complete patchesbut with slight holes. I shot a group of three and they where better but meanwhile it was geting dark so I'm not confident in my ability at that point with the partridge sight's. I started focusing on the patch and tried going to 90gr. but then only found a few pieces of patches. I think it would be better if I tried a thicker patch and then he might be able to go back up on the powder a little. I'm not for sure if this is the avenue I need to be persuing and if so what thickness of a patch should I try going to if he would like to shoot a 100gr, providing the gun likes it. Thanks.

cayugad

The first question I would ask is how old are these patches? Some of the patches as they get old will shred to pieces when they are shot. Also what kind of lube was he using. If these are pre-lubed make sure the lube is not dried out. Sometimes holes in the patch just indicate that the patch is old and starting to fragment. Also if the patch is really blackened, Goex will do that sometimes. Especially if you had shot alot of rounds off and not swabbed the barrel. To protect the patch you can always put a wad between the powder and the patched roundball.

Goex is one of the most forgiving powders out there as far as patch damage, and that's why I asked the age of the patch. Make sure when you clean the rifle to use very hot if not boiling water with the soap. Wear a glove if you have to so the barrel does not burn you. After you work that very hot water through that barrel and you think the patches are clean looking, take a bore brush to the barrel. After the bore brush, take some brake cleaner (make sure you do not get brake cleaner on the wood) or strong solvent and spray that down the barrel. Now run that brush a few more times. After that put it back in the hot water bath. With the hot water bath, the brushing, the brake cleaner/solvent, and another hot water bath, you should be back to bare metal in the bore. Run a few dry patches through it, and then a patch or two with isopropyl alcohol on them to drive any water out of the bore. When you're sure the bore is bone dry and clean you can bore butter it if you wish, or you can oil it with a quality gun oil.

The next time you shoot it, use some new patches and see if that does not solve your problems... My favorite patch is 100% cotton pillow tick material I buy at Wal Mart. I wash the cloth and then line dry it. Washing takes the sizing out of the cloth and allows it to absorb lube better. You can then tear this material into strips. All you do is lube the strip as you need it, seat the ball under the muzzle and cut the cloth from the barrel. You now have a perfectly centered patch. Also the material in question will run .015-.018 in thickness and it really holds up to powder.....

TC209x50

Well the patch's are ? old, I'm guessing that they are pretty old due to just knowing how he is. If it would take him 5 years to shoot a bag, they may be the very same patches. I didn't think of that, good point. They are or where at one point ox yokes pre lubed. I've always just did the hot water bath with soapy water and a plunging effect with a patch. I've not used any slovents or brake cleaner and he showed me how to clean so I know this has'nt been done. I did spit patch between shots and follow with dry patch. I guess there could be build up that can't be gotten out with that style cleaning and that could be some issue as well. I did notice that there's a large amount of firey ol glory from the muzzle, maybe more than mostwhen he shootsabove 80gr, which is also the point at which I can't find any patches.

TC209x50

picked up a pack of T/C's pillow ticking prelubed, gonna give these a try. .018"

Triple Se7en

Both of my Renegades with Green Mountain barrelsprefer cotton .015s. I've tried all kinds of pillow ticking, however shot groups are always a couple inches smaller with smooth cotton. Now both of my Traditions rifles will shoot pillow-tickers well.

An ingredient or two in your lube has broken down. Bore Butter/Wonderlube 1000 lasts longer inside the tubes than in a very thin, clear plastic, pre-lubed patches-package.

roundball

Start using an over powder wad like OxYoke wonderwads...it acts as a firewall and your patches on the ground willlook like new...usually tightens groups as well

sabinajiles

It sounds as if you aren'tusing a tight enough ball and patch combination. Patches are shredded when hot gasses from the burning powder rush around the patched ballwhile it is moving down the bore and burngas cut/burn the patch. The lighter charge you used illustrated this by the ring of small holes you found in the recovered patch. The holes are where the high pressure, hot gasses rushed beween therifling groves and the patch.The unburned patch between the holes is where it contacted the lands, which is a tighter fit, thereforeno gas around the patch there and no hole. It isn't possible to get a perfect seal between a patched roundball and the bore, and there will always be some gas escaping around the patched ball, but you need to get it down to a level that doesn't cause any problems.

Cayugad's suggestion to use new patches isa good one and roundball's suggestionof an over the powder wadcan also help but I think you need to try a a patch that is thicker than .010". I have neverseen a .010" cotton patch hold up except with light loads. It just isn't tough enough. The pillow ticking you picked up is much better suited. I would also try some .535" balls. This will also give you a tighter fit, which is especially important in T/C barrels, with their shallow rifling. One other thing is to use Ffg powder instead of Fffg. The Ffg powder will build higher breech pressure and is more prone to cause the gas cutting/burning of your patch.

AmericanPioneer

I use the prelubed thompson center ticking patches my brother bought for me. I picked some fired ones up and they just had a black ring on them. No holes or tears anywhere. I am using the remington golden round balls in .54 cal I found years ago. Just got around to trying them in my firehawk this year. They shot great. I guess it depends on groove depth and actual bore diameter and the thickness of the patch and type plus lube. My brother couldnt get them to shoot because his patches were too loose. He was usind a firehawk also. Their are different poewerbelt bottoms in different sizes because the bore diameter varies from different companies. I always wondered why Knight had powerbelts made for them specifically. They are larger to fit their bore tighter. Find out what your actual bore diameter is and also measure the ball you are shooting to see what it is actually in size. Call the company if you have to, to ask what their bore size generally runs. Good Luck!!!

cayugad

Today I decided to shoot my .58 caliber Green Mountain Barrel with a muslin patch. I figured I would give Triple Se7en's advise a try and change the patch. I get excellent accuracy with the pillow tick but I had some white cotton muslin I had bought to try.



The first thing I noticed about the muslin cloth was it was much thinner then the pillow tick. This concerned me since I could seat the ball under the crown of the muzzle with my thumb and after cutting the patch could drive it straight from there with the ramrod only. No short starter needed to get it down the bore at all. For that reason I stuck a wonder wad under the patched ball with 100 grains of Goex 2f and Dynamite Noble 1075 caps as a pressure seal.

This ten shot group was done at 30 yards off a bench rest without swabbing the bore at all. I was using moosemilk as a patch lube. I was pleased with the accuracy and really surprised that a roundball which loaded that easy would be that accurate. I would like to get back to the 100 yard range with them...

dmurphy317

I don't know Cayugad, you might want to tweek that load a little more, I couldn't find the 10 holes you said should have been there. lol

Nice shooting, I'd love to see the 100 yard results.