Fl Still Hunter

Why does everyone fear the 150 grain / pyro powderloads if the guns are made for it?? I am mostly a high power rifle reloader and usually load magnum cal's to the max, if the accuracy is there. I shoot clear cut pines, long range shots are the norm. Just a question ???
Florida Still Hunter !!

kevin1

It isn't fear , it's respect for wasting powder .
Unless yours has a longer than normal barrel a good percentage of your charge isn't gonna burn completely . I've shot 3 pellet loads and actually watched a burning pellet chunk follow the bullet out of the muzzle . When you consider the markup on pellets it just isn't worth it . If long range shots are unavoidable in your situation then I'd reccomend that your change to a Savage smokeless ML .

dmurphy317

I don't know that fear is the right term when talking about the so called "magnum" loads of 150gr. Many have tried them but only a few have found them as accurate as something a little less punishing.

As a reloader you have probably found that some load combinations work for one gun but not another. Same thing when trying different powders with a paticular bullet. When loading a muzzleloader you are, in effect, reloading for each shot in a similar manner to reloading for a CF rifle, just not in advance.

Each gun is going to react to each load in a unique way. You may find a load for your gun that works at the max load allowed, or you may find it likes something less than max. When I reload for my CF rifles or load my MLer's, I prefer accurate loads over screaming fast loads. If I find a load that does both, I'm a happy camper, if not, I go with the fastest accurate load that will work for what I'm hunting. Many of the ML loads I use are perfectly cappable of taking game out to 200+ yards, some even further with a little use of kentucky windage. The stoutest load I use is 130gr of pellets under a 300gr SST. I haven't tried this load with the 250 ShockWave but it would probably work with that also, but with sub MOA groups at 200 yards using 100gr of 777 2F, I see little reason to increase.

The bottom line is whether your gun (and shoulder) can handle the load and, more importantly, will it shoot accurately. No matter how fast it's going, if it doesn't go where you want it to, it's just a wasted shot.

eldeguello

The key is bolded above. Many people have found that the 150-grain Pyrodex load leaves something to be desired accuracy-wise. By all means, use the most accurate load your gun can handle - if this load is 150 grains, and gives you higher velocities and flatter trajectories, so much the better.

One of my most accurate loads in my slow-twist .50 is 140 grains of loose FFFg GOEX ClearShot BP substitute powder with a 370-grain Maxi-ball. It averages 1750FPS MV. Unfortunately, Maxi balls have a very poor ballistic coefficient, so the trajectory is not flattened much at longer ranges. I use it because it is very accurate.

cayugad

Fear has nothing to do with it. If 150 grain loads were the most accurate in the rifle and necessary for the kind of animal or situation I was hunting then by all means I would be shooting it. I never shoot pellets, so maybe 150 grains of pellets are the most accurate out of say my Black Diamond XR. Since I shoot loose, I found that 110 grains of loose Triple Se7en give outstanding accuracy and all the down range powerI would need for the kind of hunting situation I encounter.

If I were planning an elk hunt out west, I wouldbe trying some of the magnum loads and really looking into whether the accuracy from the pellets would justify the use of it.

My real concern over 150 grain magnum chargesis people that use them in rifles that are not manufactured to handle them, or not able to handle them. Older inlines are not magnum rifles. There have even been some recent events that suggest some rifles even though claiming to be magnum capable, have failed. So in these cases, unknown to them, a person is using a potentially dangerous powder charge in a situation where the benefit of such a charge is really not justified. Had a lesser powder charge been used there would have been no problems.

Another problem with 150 grain charges is, many people are under the impression that their magnum rifle is able to handle 150 grains of powder. Whether that 150 grains comes in the form of pellets or loose powder and whether it is Pyrodex, Triple Se7en or Black Mag3. This just is not the case. Just as many rifles are different, so are powders and their potency. Read and know your manual and rifle. When you thenfactor in the different grades of powder such as FFg and FFFg it becomes a quagmire of confusion for many and a dangerous situation just waiting to happen for the magnum shooter.

Many rifles will not handle magnum charges even though they are said to be magnum rifles. The flaming pellet is very pretty in the late afternoon hours flying down range but hardly living up to its potential, just as the unburnt powder spread all over the snow was really needed.This is just due to barrel length. Out of all my inlines, I believe the Black Diamond XR and maybe the Knight Disc are true magnum rifles. The Wolverine on the other hand with a 22" barrel would be just foolishness to attempt to shoot with 150 grain loads. Besides, it is rated at only 120 grains according to the manual recommendations.

I will admit the recent event with a CVA Kodiak may have changed my outlook a great deal on magnum loads in certain brands of rifle. Whether it was a magnum load or not that blew the rifle I am not really certain. I do think many people are buying inline rifles with expectations that they displayvery impressive ballistics. Manufacturers are trying to sell this point to many shooters. The real truth is, some ofthem will not shoot the 150 grain loads efficiently for one reason or another. Whilethey are effective at dispatching an animal at some great distances, they are still only a muzzleloader.

grapeshot

OH MY GOD, Cayugad, you forgot something! There's a first!

Some bullets actually skip the rifling with magnum loads and some bullets shatter on impact at such high velocity. In the first case you'll have no accuracy or consistancy and the later case you'll lose penetration. And like Cayugad said, large game like elk need a bullet that stays together to get through the shoulders.

bigcountry

Goodness gracious, you guys crack me up. Shatter huh? Recoil? Flaming chunk? Wow! Let me guess you couldn't get 2MOA with them? It takes some homework or rangework. Right combo, you can get it. Just work at it. Most I know that can't get it working, will bark at the notion. I guess cause it doesnt' work for them, its hogwash. But these are the same guys sometimes that gets a high powered rifle for the gun season. I use my ML for most hunting. I like the flattness with 150gr pyro loads. Never witnessed a flaming chunk. Hey the chronograph don't lie. That extra 50gr gives me almost 300fps increase in velocity. It must be doing something.

I suggest looking at tight fitting sabots like the barnes expander. I use a magnum subbase under that.

This year, I have found excellent results with 130gr of 777 ffg loose with the knight powerstem. Thats the load that gave me the best accuracy. So I used it for the past two days with wonderful results on deer. I agree with cayugad, if I got best accuracy with 110gr, I would have used it. If it was 140gr loose, I would have used it. Yes, knight said thier newer knight elite with a powerstem can handle 150gr loose 777 loads. But it was 130gr. Last year, I tried 3 777 pellets also with pretty good results. I mean what use is 2100fps 250gr bullet loads if it can't hit 2MOA or better?

LaneNebraska

OK, so how do you swab the bore between shots with that powerstem thingy sticking up like that???

bigcountry

I don't understand your question. Is this a trick question? You put a patch on the end of a rod with a jag, you put a little No.13 or the windex/alcohol mixture, or whatever is your choice. You insert it in the barrel, and in fast short strokes, you push to the bottom, until you hit the "thingy", you pull out, And follow up with two clean patches.

The powerstem was amazingly clean believe it or not. I was sceptical too. But was shocked how much cleaner it burned. No crazy crud ring cause it disperses the primer flame a tad. A 209 is just way too powerful, and I concurr with some writers that it lifts you charge and sabot off before a good ignition occurs.

Now with all that said, I plan on trying the other breech plug and playing with some other lower power loads. What can I say, I like to play and experiment.

AQUATECH

I AGREE IT AIN'T FEAR, I GUESS THAT IF I WERE
REALLY GOOD AND PRACTICED A LONG TIME I
COULD GET MY QUARRY WITH A SHARPENED STICK.
JUST KIDDING IF 150 WILL WORK FOR YOU AND
YOUR ML CAN SAFELY HANDLE IT THEN BY ALL
MEANS GO FOR IT. I OWN TWO ML THAT CLAIM
TO BE MAG. CAPABLE BUT SO FAR I'VE TAKEN
WHAT I NEED TO WITH 100GR. OF 777 PELLETS.
NOT TO BEAT THE DEAD HORSE, BUT PLEASE BE
SURE YOUR ML CAN SAFELY HANDLE 150GR. LOADS
GOOD LUCK GOD BLESS HUNT SAFELY