huntnmuleys

elkcrazy8,
i hear ya on the swap hunts. i do TONS of those, as many as i can. i have made some great friends doing that too, and had some great trips. that little canadian elk hunt on horseback i mentioned a few post ago will be the result of a swap hunt, or at least a buddy i made swap hunting. this year i have 4 guys from florida coming here on a swap for muleys and antelope. if i draw, im going to vermont on a swap for moose. coues in arizona is a possibility too, if i can get the time off. i agree, they save a ton of money. i have been to north quebec, and ohio on swaps, with many more in the works (works meaning whenever i get enough vacation to go everywhere).

alaska is in my future somehow, it will happen. i just might look to swap archery elk for that trip, we have a good hunt here.
if ya ever want to hunt wyoming, look me up

brad

manboy

ELKCRAZY8=u hit it right on the head , u have to cool your meat down in a stream, then pack it out ! i have never heard or seen a elk spiol using this method! why to go!

james u smart =challenge me!

brush= don't clasify all atv users with the closed road hunters, i hate that myself![:@]

Brush hunter

manboy: I don't . 99% of the atv users and horse people I run into in the woods are great people!

gotlost

I have no problem With ATV when that say were they be long. When they go around closed gates or go cross country in closed areas I have a big problem with them.
A horse does not leave a well defind trail when they go cross country, Horses do due some damage to main trails but that is an exsiting trail and most trail will get repairs done by the forest service at some point. I have seen horse hunters & outfitters do repairs themself. If you have ever had to put a horse down due to a reck on a trail you'ld know why.
I have walked a cross a medow with elk on the other side, keeping the horse between me and the elk and the elk could care less that we were there. ( as Will Gerr said in J. Johnson Elk don't know how many feet horses have).
Having horses in camp can be a real pain and there is always something that needs to be done with them. you don't just pull into camp and turn the key off.
As for Guides I've seen both sides of that , prices are just like gasoline they are what the market will bare. Most guides and outfitters earn thier money, They must know the game,the country, keep thier client out of trouble, get them on game and if all that comes together get the game out.

Hunter_59

The main difference is the NOISE!!!!! I've been turkey hunting in Missouri, in the Osarks, and sitting on the side of a hill waiting for daylight in complete silence. Then you here it, the damned ATV's on a hilltop 1-2 miles away. If it were horses, you wouldn't hear them. Nothing spoils a day in the woods more than the NOISE of ATV's.

DM

Ever see how much work a horse is when you run onto a brown bear out in the bush???? You won't have to go looking for your ATV AFTER being bucked off like on a horse!! Every time i've been on a pack string, we had to haul water and food for the horses, then round them up every morning, screw around with there feet, and on and on and on................. NO contest, an ATV is a LOT less trouble than a horse!!!!

BUT, i don't think the bush should be infested with ATV's running all over either!!! It's like anything else, either the owner is responsible or they aren't!!!

Where i lived in Alaska in the early days i could walk out from my house and shoot a decent moose. Not many horses around them days. When i left Alaska, everyone had a horse, and the average hunter could no longer walk far enough into the bush to get a decent moose, as every place you went, some guy on a horse had already trambled the place to death!!! This is a REAL problem there!

AND, anyone who thinks a horse doesn't damage the land, is NUTS!!! In Alaska the horse trails are every bit as tore up as ATV trails, at least where i hunted they was.

BTW, i had a good rideing/pack mule AND an ATV there.


First off, who buys a cub every year????? And, most of the bear hunters i've been around had a perment camp set up, and made a LOT more money off it than just bear hunters!!! Also, if they are flying long distances to get you with there cub, that was charged extra.

Anyway, i think 15K to hunt browns is a total rip off!!! Those of you that think it's a fair price are the ones keeping it up that high!!!! Like someone else said, many will pay it, and that's why it's so high in the first place!

The guides in Alaska are always trying to get more animials added to the list of "gotta have a guide". Many times while i was there they tried to get moose added. In my opinion, the whole thing is over priced.

Also, anyone who thinks that if the price was lowered, all the bears would get shot off doesn't have a clue either!

I guess you need to live there about 20 years or so to understand what it's REALLY like there.

DRilling Man

charlie brown

EASSSSYYY there, that was not inteneded to mean people buy a Super Cub every year. Yes, maybe the figures are high, or exagerated, but it is just to show that they have to make a living just like everyone else. I am not trying to start an argument on what the cost of a hunt should/shouldn't be, but its just for the sake of proving a point, that everything costs money, and people will pay as long as there is someone who will provide a service. That cost of that Super Cub could also mean what the cost of a new vehicle every couple of years down here would cost. I know people that are guides, that do guide a LOT of people, but they also buy new equipment quite regularly, and new vehicles more often than a lot of people could even think they could. When you have a camp more than 200 miles away from a hub, but you can't fly, you drive to pick up the clients, and that puts a lot of wear and tear on a vehicle, which means more money to buy a new one every two or three years. I think guides are being forced to keep their clients happy, and one quick way (you would keep me happy anyway, if I were going on a once in a lifetime hunt) would be to keep top notch equipment in top notch shape. That's not an easy task, and compound that with the cost of new vehicles and other equipment, and it adds up quickly.

Slamfire

Well the Cub does have a required rebuild on the engine that you had better have saved enough money to pay for. Nobody could possibly earn wages, feed 3 or more kids, and go on a brown bear hunt every year. But he could quit makin' car payments any more often than necessary and put that money aside till he had enough to go to South Africa once before the kids all moved out. And after they were out of college, he could probably save enough to go to Patagonia for red deer, bein' way to old for huntin' chamois or thar in New Zealand. [>:] It'd probably worth it in memories alone.

skeeter 7MM

I use an ATV and if you consider me lazy...BIG FLIPPIN' DEAL!! You have no idea of what my hunting consists of, I have never drove up on a animal then dismounted and unscabbard my rifle to harvest it. I use it to get into remote areas then hunt like you on foot and in most cases just to transport camp/gear and mostly game in a more effecient manner. It is legal, so if you don't like it...please refer to my first line of the post....BIG FLIPPIN' DEAL.

Sorry but an opinion isn't fact! You do whatever you please but please don't tell me what I should do or suggest I am xxxxx. It is quite evident your experience is limited to a back 40 attitude and you have put on the blinders not seeing that other factors are possibly involved..so live in your bubble but don't expect the rest of us to join you!

ShatoDavis

Manboy,

I said that I had my opinions of ATV but I wouldn't share them. You assumed that I was against them. well, you where right. ATV's destroy much more than horses. If you don't know the advatages of using a horse over an ATV then you need some experience. ATV's put a lot of polution in the air, they are loud and they tear the hell out of the land. I think they should be banned from National forests. I've rode a lot of atv's and they are a lot of fun. Hell, I use to race them in my spare time. I think there is a time and a place for them. I just don't think that the hunting woods is it.

YOu don't see how a guide earns his money. Well, first I don't think of them as "guides". I don't hire them to lead me around the mountain by the hand. I study Topo maps and make my own plans. More than once I have pissed a "guide" off to the point that he didn't want to go with me. Which was fine with me, because I knew where I wanted to go. Most times the "guides" want to guide you to the easy places. They hope you'll shoot something small so they don't have to work as hard. How do they earn there money? Well, I live in Missouri which is a long way from the elk mountains. For me to buy, pack, and haul enough gear to hunt the way I want, it would cost as much or more than the cost of the outfitter. Not to mention the use of there horses and tack, or the meals that they provide. Now if you factor in the prime hunting area into the equation then its cheaper to utilize an outfitter. Now I've taken some of our "flat lander" horse to the mountains once. They couldn't get there wind. It was a nightmare. You need horses that have been in the mountains and know what they are doing. Bottom line; if I lived as close to the mountains as you I wouldn't need the services of an outfitter either. I don't, so I do. I'm not ashamed of it one bit.

PS. I don't like hunting with ATV's. That does not mean that I think less of folks who use them. To each his own. I like to get well beyond the reaches of an ATV.