HB05-1266
05-12-2005, 01:21 PM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 590
RE: HB05-1266
I'll tell you what I think in two parts:
1) When I'm in the woods, I see guys drive up in $30,000 pickup trucks, unload $5,000 ATV's off the truck, then grab another $5,000 worth of rifles, binoculars, range finders, etc. etc. Then when a deer tag goes from $10 to $20 you'd think the sky was falling to hear these same guys talk.
2) I've said it before and so far nobody is getting it. The absolutely certain result of this Taulman (how's my spelling?) Outfitters lawsuit in AZ is that nonresident hunting fees will go to a price that will take your breath away in a matter of years. See, states (read residents) are simply not going to let nonresident hunters overrun them in the long run. So, how do you stop that? Well, you jack up the nonresident fee to the point that... jump forward to 2015 ... well, no your honor, we don't put a quota on nonresident tags. Of course we charge $2,000 for a nonresident elk tag and that means we get the same low number of nonresident hunters we got back in the day of quotas. Discriminatory pricing, as opposed to quotas, is a well established principle in our economy (senior discounts, anyone?).
You think Taulman et al care about this? Of course they don't. I believe they know exactly what they are doing and that their true target is not the quotas per se, but the low budget nonresident hunter who schleps in on the cheap and DOESN'T HIRE AN OUTFITTER. See! The rich guys are the ones who hire outfitters, and they're still going to be able to afford $2000 elk tags. Who wins? Outfitters, that's who. (Incidentally, residents aren't going to be hurt too badly when it's all said and done, just don't figure on hunting a neighboring state without mortgaging the house.)
1) When I'm in the woods, I see guys drive up in $30,000 pickup trucks, unload $5,000 ATV's off the truck, then grab another $5,000 worth of rifles, binoculars, range finders, etc. etc. Then when a deer tag goes from $10 to $20 you'd think the sky was falling to hear these same guys talk.
2) I've said it before and so far nobody is getting it. The absolutely certain result of this Taulman (how's my spelling?) Outfitters lawsuit in AZ is that nonresident hunting fees will go to a price that will take your breath away in a matter of years. See, states (read residents) are simply not going to let nonresident hunters overrun them in the long run. So, how do you stop that? Well, you jack up the nonresident fee to the point that... jump forward to 2015 ... well, no your honor, we don't put a quota on nonresident tags. Of course we charge $2,000 for a nonresident elk tag and that means we get the same low number of nonresident hunters we got back in the day of quotas. Discriminatory pricing, as opposed to quotas, is a well established principle in our economy (senior discounts, anyone?).
You think Taulman et al care about this? Of course they don't. I believe they know exactly what they are doing and that their true target is not the quotas per se, but the low budget nonresident hunter who schleps in on the cheap and DOESN'T HIRE AN OUTFITTER. See! The rich guys are the ones who hire outfitters, and they're still going to be able to afford $2000 elk tags. Who wins? Outfitters, that's who. (Incidentally, residents aren't going to be hurt too badly when it's all said and done, just don't figure on hunting a neighboring state without mortgaging the house.)
05-12-2005, 01:46 PM
#22
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: HB05-1266
ORIGINAL: huntnmuleys
in my neck of the world, $30,000 is a pretty decent salary, not below average anyway. many of my friends who are married will NEVER be able to take the trips ive taken in the last couple years, and im not talking extravagent trips. swap hunts to be precise. try to raise a family on that kind of money and have any to travel, even if it is just swap hunting. are they poor parents or deadbeats? no, the cost of living here is cheap and so are the wages, but when we meager people seek to leave our little corner of the world, we have to compete with what people like you make. it just doest work.
in my neck of the world, $30,000 is a pretty decent salary, not below average anyway. many of my friends who are married will NEVER be able to take the trips ive taken in the last couple years, and im not talking extravagent trips. swap hunts to be precise. try to raise a family on that kind of money and have any to travel, even if it is just swap hunting. are they poor parents or deadbeats? no, the cost of living here is cheap and so are the wages, but when we meager people seek to leave our little corner of the world, we have to compete with what people like you make. it just doest work.
If a $30,000 per year guy with 4 kids couldn't afford to take his kids fishing or bird hunting or deer hunting, you'd hear me scream that the fees are completely unreasonable.
However, when it comes to more than that... I have to discuss the choices that a person makes.
You hunt other places... If you were raising a family, you wouldn't be able to. That was your choice.
If a $30,000 per year guy wants to apply everyone in his family for a sheep hunt... he better have a small family or be looking to improve on his $30,000 per year.
I just find it interesting that this country where economic status dicates the quality of healthcare availible to it's citizens... all you people believe that it is SHEEP TAGS that we should be subsidizing...
ORIGINAL: huntnmuleys
ya know, a lot of california people, like you are making it a point to move out here. yep, youve made some money, and you even buy some nice looking property (that higher priced crap that no local would every buy, or want to buy). but one thing i notice that around here you people arent buying a lot of around here....friends.
ya know, a lot of california people, like you are making it a point to move out here. yep, youve made some money, and you even buy some nice looking property (that higher priced crap that no local would every buy, or want to buy). but one thing i notice that around here you people arent buying a lot of around here....friends.
The recent movie with Jack Black and Ben Stiller sort of touched on this subject...
SA
SA
05-12-2005, 01:46 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: HB05-1266
I think prices for tags are outragouse any were,there is alot of hunting I would like to do out of state but the price of tags cost to darn much.
I stay in Montana where I can hunt everything I desire fro now,Elk,deer (White-tail and mulies),Moose,Blackbear,antelope,Mountain sheep and Goats,turkeys,upland birds.
I put up with crapy wages,winters,land tax,poor jobs.Why so I can hunt and not drive or fly 10,000 miles to do-it.Do I think out-a-staters should pick up the tab,yes.Why cause they have good jobs,good wages,mild winters.If ya don't like it don't come here,thats you choice not mine.
Spyro,
There are pepole in this world who take procreating not that seirious,I seem them all the time 6 kids and now where to go.I try to help those kind of pepole,get them a few deer for the winter nothing pricey 40 bucks worth of tags,but thats a whole lot cheaper than a run to the store.So when a residnt tag gose from 20 to 50 it's a big deal,some families can't afford 100 bucks.
Now
Here is me I'm 30 years old,I work full time been working since I was 13,been with the same job 12 years,I make right at 30k + benies and 1 mo vac. a year.I have 4 kids 2 daughter and Twin boys,my wife works full time makes 20k a year.We don't live the high life but hey we get by,we have our fun and we budget.I can go on about any hunt I wan't at a drop of a hat(under 10K)not that's the point.I would rather sell all my guns and not hunt the rest of my life if I could not take my kids or be with them and that my freind is call LOVE.With no amout of could buy I'am their father and for that I thank god every day.
BBJ
P.S. Spyro,we figured out the kid problem.......it was the wife so I had her fixed.
I stay in Montana where I can hunt everything I desire fro now,Elk,deer (White-tail and mulies),Moose,Blackbear,antelope,Mountain sheep and Goats,turkeys,upland birds.
I put up with crapy wages,winters,land tax,poor jobs.Why so I can hunt and not drive or fly 10,000 miles to do-it.Do I think out-a-staters should pick up the tab,yes.Why cause they have good jobs,good wages,mild winters.If ya don't like it don't come here,thats you choice not mine.
Spyro,
There are pepole in this world who take procreating not that seirious,I seem them all the time 6 kids and now where to go.I try to help those kind of pepole,get them a few deer for the winter nothing pricey 40 bucks worth of tags,but thats a whole lot cheaper than a run to the store.So when a residnt tag gose from 20 to 50 it's a big deal,some families can't afford 100 bucks.
Now
Here is me I'm 30 years old,I work full time been working since I was 13,been with the same job 12 years,I make right at 30k + benies and 1 mo vac. a year.I have 4 kids 2 daughter and Twin boys,my wife works full time makes 20k a year.We don't live the high life but hey we get by,we have our fun and we budget.I can go on about any hunt I wan't at a drop of a hat(under 10K)not that's the point.I would rather sell all my guns and not hunt the rest of my life if I could not take my kids or be with them and that my freind is call LOVE.With no amout of could buy I'am their father and for that I thank god every day.
BBJ
P.S. Spyro,we figured out the kid problem.......it was the wife so I had her fixed.
05-12-2005, 02:08 PM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: HB05-1266
ORIGINAL: BareBack Jack
Spyro,
It must have been a long time since you wore a condom,.25 cents HA,their like $1.75@ the gas station,or 6 @ $4.95.=$1.21 each.
BBJ
Spyro,
It must have been a long time since you wore a condom,.25 cents HA,their like $1.75@ the gas station,or 6 @ $4.95.=$1.21 each.
BBJ
You married guys must buy them by the 6-pack because you are afriad that you won't use them all by the experation date and they'll goto waste.
You can goto Costco and get the 44-Count Box of Condoms for $10.99...
44 @ $10.99 = $0.25 each
Anyway, back to the topic, nobody is saying that you can't take the yougins hunting and fishing... you just might not be applying 5 people for sheep tags...
Btw, the deer tags didn't go from $20 to $50 but rather from $20 to $30... or a $.77 increase per year since the $20 price was set in 1992.
SA
05-12-2005, 02:15 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: HB05-1266
Heck Spyro,
I'm was not that lucky when I was single to buy the ECONO box at Sam's Club.
It just tough to see our passions in life get so spendy,the cost of everthing has gone up.One thing in Montana they offer a 1/2 price rate on tags till their 14,and after that like you said if my kid wan'ts to put in for Sheep or Goat,or Moose he/she can meet me 1/2 way.
BBJ
I'm was not that lucky when I was single to buy the ECONO box at Sam's Club.
It just tough to see our passions in life get so spendy,the cost of everthing has gone up.One thing in Montana they offer a 1/2 price rate on tags till their 14,and after that like you said if my kid wan'ts to put in for Sheep or Goat,or Moose he/she can meet me 1/2 way.
BBJ
05-12-2005, 04:48 PM
#27
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: usa
Posts: 464
RE: HB05-1266
spyro....
i think the local resent thing has some merit, but not so much here. here the only place these people are moving into are small 20-40 acre tracts that landowners are subdividing, and overpricing about 500%. these landowners know that the only people who would pay that kind of money for not so choice land here are the newcomers. and they get screwed everytime. i myself just bought 20 acres near here, in the hills witha small creek running through it and maintained county road access, but i got it for a fraction of the price that these people are paying. maybe i should sell it to one of them??
that whole haves vrs have nots thing, i dont see why these people would do it. move to a totally new area with few friends, and then not make any when they get here. hwoever i see it all the time. guess friends mean more to me than a little piece of property.
anybody here looking for 20 or so acres???
brad
i think the local resent thing has some merit, but not so much here. here the only place these people are moving into are small 20-40 acre tracts that landowners are subdividing, and overpricing about 500%. these landowners know that the only people who would pay that kind of money for not so choice land here are the newcomers. and they get screwed everytime. i myself just bought 20 acres near here, in the hills witha small creek running through it and maintained county road access, but i got it for a fraction of the price that these people are paying. maybe i should sell it to one of them??
that whole haves vrs have nots thing, i dont see why these people would do it. move to a totally new area with few friends, and then not make any when they get here. hwoever i see it all the time. guess friends mean more to me than a little piece of property.
anybody here looking for 20 or so acres???
brad
05-26-2005, 11:40 AM
#28
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: HB05-1266
To the people that scoffed at my stating that having a kid costs you $200k by the time they are 18 (w/o college)...
Here you go... from MSN money...
Raising your quarter-million dollar baby
Here you go... from MSN money...
Raising your quarter-million dollar baby
