A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
04-17-2005, 10:52 PM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 3,179
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
I hate to shock you, NVMike, [
] but I'm about as far from a lady as you can get. I'll be the first to say that I'm a Bitch. But if you call me a liar when I tell you I'm ethical... you'll get called out, taken to task and will lose in a match of wills. I won't walk away, even if it gets dirty. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's life with Hikchick. The name fits and I'm proud of it. And if none of you like how it is, we can step outside. 
LOL
] but I'm about as far from a lady as you can get. I'll be the first to say that I'm a Bitch. But if you call me a liar when I tell you I'm ethical... you'll get called out, taken to task and will lose in a match of wills. I won't walk away, even if it gets dirty. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's life with Hikchick. The name fits and I'm proud of it. And if none of you like how it is, we can step outside. LOL
04-18-2005, 12:42 AM
#52
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
I guess I use the word "trophy" to coicide with my original post in this thread. As I stated earlier, for me, personally, I feel there are times when I WOULD shoot someones animal for them--BUT IF THEIR REASON WAS TO HANG IT ON THE WALL (as was what I gathered in the primary scenario of this thread)--THEN DEFINATELY NOT (just my personal opinion).
Let me describe a scenario
You and I were out whitetail hunting and we both had 1 (either sex) tag. I had already tagged out earlier in the day and now, we are both over-looking this grain field together. Evening is coming on and some deer are coming out across the other side of the field to feed. For one legitimate reason or another......whether you had hurt yourself that day, had poor eyesight, or were just apprehensive about your abilities at that yardage (this is just an example), you asked me to shoot a doe for you because you wanted some deer meat. If you were a trusted friend/hunting partner, I would do it without thinking twice.
If however, there was also a 180'' class buck over there and you wanted me to shoot him for you, I would not. Even if he was the only deer in the field and I belived you just wanted the meat, I would tell you that we'll have to wait for something else to show up.
This is my opinion, I don't really care if you think its right or wrong, because it would happen all the same. I thought this was a discussion. I was definately not tryting to be combative...I was just interested in hearing cases that were logical even if I disagreed with them. That is why I was really directing my last post at Spyro, because he stated he could make a legitimate argument for either side in the scenario he originally described. I hope he does not think that I was being accusatory of him...I was not or did not mean to be. Even though I do not agree with him on res/non-res issues, I believe he is knowledgeable (to a degree ) and I have gained respect after reading some other posts of his.
so this is so long but
now for my next scenario
same situation as before. But what if I had shot some doe or scrub as my deer (for meat purposes) and now you and I were both overlooking this field and a huge buck stepped out. Then, hypothetically, you said "since I can't make that shot, I'll take your deer and you can shoot that one if you want". Would I shoot?????????? Maybe. I would have to be there to really find out for sure.
Let me describe a scenario
You and I were out whitetail hunting and we both had 1 (either sex) tag. I had already tagged out earlier in the day and now, we are both over-looking this grain field together. Evening is coming on and some deer are coming out across the other side of the field to feed. For one legitimate reason or another......whether you had hurt yourself that day, had poor eyesight, or were just apprehensive about your abilities at that yardage (this is just an example), you asked me to shoot a doe for you because you wanted some deer meat. If you were a trusted friend/hunting partner, I would do it without thinking twice.
If however, there was also a 180'' class buck over there and you wanted me to shoot him for you, I would not. Even if he was the only deer in the field and I belived you just wanted the meat, I would tell you that we'll have to wait for something else to show up.
This is my opinion, I don't really care if you think its right or wrong, because it would happen all the same. I thought this was a discussion. I was definately not tryting to be combative...I was just interested in hearing cases that were logical even if I disagreed with them. That is why I was really directing my last post at Spyro, because he stated he could make a legitimate argument for either side in the scenario he originally described. I hope he does not think that I was being accusatory of him...I was not or did not mean to be. Even though I do not agree with him on res/non-res issues, I believe he is knowledgeable (to a degree ) and I have gained respect after reading some other posts of his.
so this is so long but
now for my next scenario
same situation as before. But what if I had shot some doe or scrub as my deer (for meat purposes) and now you and I were both overlooking this field and a huge buck stepped out. Then, hypothetically, you said "since I can't make that shot, I'll take your deer and you can shoot that one if you want". Would I shoot?????????? Maybe. I would have to be there to really find out for sure.
Once again I think another hunters animal should only be shot by others if wounded prior, other than that your tagged out the gun goes in the case and if he/she can't pull the trigger oh well better luck next time! In doing so regardless of the reason what benefit does it provide to either party?
In these hypothetical cases you have to assume the individual who is unable to pull pin is rather green, so it is your/our responsible to show/tote an ethical line and instill that belief in the next generation of hunter. Hunting isn't all about harvesting, that is just the final piece of the puzzle and I think we need to educate those new to the sport of this aspect plus all the other aspects that truly make a hunt successful!
04-18-2005, 11:12 AM
#53
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
ORIGINAL: Hikchick
But if you call me a liar when I tell you I'm ethical... you'll get called out, taken to task and will lose in a match of wills. I won't walk away, even if it gets dirty.
But if you call me a liar when I tell you I'm ethical... you'll get called out, taken to task and will lose in a match of wills. I won't walk away, even if it gets dirty.
Btw, back to you whole morals and ethics rant... Two questions, answer them if you are 'man enough'...
1) Do you equate morality and ethics to following the law of the land?
2) Have you ever received a traffic ticket ?
04-18-2005, 11:50 AM
#54
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
Have I ever recived a traffic ticket,let me put it this way,I pay more for liability insurance in a month than most pepole pay for full coverage in a year.
As for the ethical issue here it is up to you and who you hunt with and the Fish and Game officer who is ticketing you.If you make up your mind and toss the consquenses out the window thats your choice.
I'm not here to accuse anyone or point a finger at anyone,those that live in glass houses should never throw stones kinda thing.There is a time and place when to shoot someone elses animal and for me that when they are wounded or have been shot so many times that it's the only ethical thing TO DO.
I don't hold it against anyone if they have,what gets me are the ones that keep killing,tags or no tags.If you have properly tag animals and thats all you got thats fine,but don't keep killing for the pure enjoyment of killing.
BBJ
As for the ethical issue here it is up to you and who you hunt with and the Fish and Game officer who is ticketing you.If you make up your mind and toss the consquenses out the window thats your choice.
I'm not here to accuse anyone or point a finger at anyone,those that live in glass houses should never throw stones kinda thing.There is a time and place when to shoot someone elses animal and for me that when they are wounded or have been shot so many times that it's the only ethical thing TO DO.
I don't hold it against anyone if they have,what gets me are the ones that keep killing,tags or no tags.If you have properly tag animals and thats all you got thats fine,but don't keep killing for the pure enjoyment of killing.
BBJ
04-18-2005, 12:20 PM
#55
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
BBJ. Darn well said. I have a few traffic tickets. One can loose focus and get going a little fast without even noticing. However you can't shoot another persons animal without noticing. One thing has very little to do with the other. You also can't justify a short comming by pointing out that someone else might have a short comming too. Each is responsible for their own actions. A real novelty these days.
04-18-2005, 12:24 PM
#56
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
ORIGINAL: James B
BBJ. Darn well said. I have a few traffic tickets. One can loose focus and get going a little fast without even noticing. However you can't shoot another persons animal without noticing. One thing has very little to do with the other. You also can't justify a short comming by pointing out that someone else might have a short comming too. Each is responsible for their own actions. A real novelty these days.
BBJ. Darn well said. I have a few traffic tickets. One can loose focus and get going a little fast without even noticing. However you can't shoot another persons animal without noticing. One thing has very little to do with the other. You also can't justify a short comming by pointing out that someone else might have a short comming too. Each is responsible for their own actions. A real novelty these days.
You have never knowingly sped? For that matter, never intentionaly and knowingly broke any law?
If that is the case, never intentionally/knowingly broke a law, is it because you believe that it is unethical and/or immoral?
04-18-2005, 04:25 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
Spyro,
I never said anything about morals,morals are not the law.Morals are what is instiled into the person,their grit so to say.
I can not say what is moral or immoral,I know what is morral and immoral to me,and I can not judge someone else for their's.It's kinda a like cheating on taxes or cheat on your spouse,what you find immoral or not right, another person might find it down right fine with them,it dose not mean that everyone should belive it.Thats why we have a concece(sp) you know the angel and the devil on our shoulders,we have the right as a person to make up our own minds,it's up to us to deal with the consequnces.
I'am not here to judge or be the protester,I'm here to be my self and true to one's self.
I have knownly broke the law,I have knowingly sped,I have bent the laws,and on several occasions I have had to pay the price.I have done immoral things in my life,I have been moral and just right in my cause,but I still don't try to force what I belive on to someone else.
It's up to us as pepole and to do what we think is right.
If you don't wan't anyone to know what you have done then DON'T TELL THEM,it your buisness not theirs and if you can sleep with your self and still be a good or better person then thats your choice.
I'm not picking a fight with anyone,this in my words my own opion and not the gospel.
Now the law states,here in Montana a person cannot shoot another persons animal,or fill their tags as the tags are non-transferable.
Have I unknowingly broke a game law,yes and I was fined for it,and it was my fault for it.Not reading regulations and taking the word of others.
Well I will get off my high horse now.
BBJ
I never said anything about morals,morals are not the law.Morals are what is instiled into the person,their grit so to say.
I can not say what is moral or immoral,I know what is morral and immoral to me,and I can not judge someone else for their's.It's kinda a like cheating on taxes or cheat on your spouse,what you find immoral or not right, another person might find it down right fine with them,it dose not mean that everyone should belive it.Thats why we have a concece(sp) you know the angel and the devil on our shoulders,we have the right as a person to make up our own minds,it's up to us to deal with the consequnces.
I'am not here to judge or be the protester,I'm here to be my self and true to one's self.
I have knownly broke the law,I have knowingly sped,I have bent the laws,and on several occasions I have had to pay the price.I have done immoral things in my life,I have been moral and just right in my cause,but I still don't try to force what I belive on to someone else.
It's up to us as pepole and to do what we think is right.
If you don't wan't anyone to know what you have done then DON'T TELL THEM,it your buisness not theirs and if you can sleep with your self and still be a good or better person then thats your choice.
I'm not picking a fight with anyone,this in my words my own opion and not the gospel.
Now the law states,here in Montana a person cannot shoot another persons animal,or fill their tags as the tags are non-transferable.
Have I unknowingly broke a game law,yes and I was fined for it,and it was my fault for it.Not reading regulations and taking the word of others.
Well I will get off my high horse now.
BBJ
04-18-2005, 04:37 PM
#59
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
ORIGINAL: Hikchick
Spyro,
In case you haven't noticed yet, I'm perfect!!! LOLOLOL
I agreed to back off..... why can't you do the same?
Spyro,
In case you haven't noticed yet, I'm perfect!!!
LOLOLOLI agreed to back off..... why can't you do the same?
I just find it interesting that in this entire thread, you have tried to justify your action by claiming that I called you a liar... I have yet to see any place that I called you a liar.
All I have done is asked questions but you have attacked and assumed that they were attacks...
Again, the whole thing interests me... how people can view every issue in such black and white ways...
How so many believe that following the law means that they are moral and ethical.
In most instances, to be ethical, a person must hold themselves to a standard which is higher than the legal minimum.
For example, a lawyer that attacks a rape victim on the stand over and over because he doesn't have any other way of getting his client off is still within the legal bounds of his of his profession but was he moral and ethical?
How about the people that helped slaves fleeing the south? They were intentionally breaking the law but were they not morally correct?
Again, allowing yourself to think and have a discussion without immeadiately trying to take the 'moral and high ground' might have made this an interest thread.
However, from the get go, you climbed up on that soap box and started the preaching.
SA
04-18-2005, 04:40 PM
#60
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Arcadia Ca USA
Posts: 210
RE: A couple of hypothetical questions... What would you do?
ORIGINAL: BareBack Jack
Spyro,
I never said anything about morals,morals are not the law.Morals are what is instiled into the person,their grit so to say.
I can not say what is moral or immoral,I know what is morral and immoral to me,and I can not judge someone else for their's.It's kinda a like cheating on taxes or cheat on your spouse,what you find immoral or not right, another person might find it down right fine with them,it dose not mean that everyone should belive it.Thats why we have a concece(sp) you know the angel and the devil on our shoulders,we have the right as a person to make up our own minds,it's up to us to deal with the consequnces.
I'am not here to judge or be the protester,I'm here to be my self and true to one's self.
I have knownly broke the law,I have knowingly sped,I have bent the laws,and on several occasions I have had to pay the price.I have done immoral things in my life,I have been moral and just right in my cause,but I still don't try to force what I belive on to someone else.
It's up to us as pepole and to do what we think is right.
If you don't wan't anyone to know what you have done then DON'T TELL THEM,it your buisness not theirs and if you can sleep with your self and still be a good or better person then thats your choice.
I'm not picking a fight with anyone,this in my words my own opion and not the gospel.
Now the law states,here in Montana a person cannot shoot another persons animal,or fill their tags as the tags are non-transferable.
Have I unknowingly broke a game law,yes and I was fined for it,and it was my fault for it.Not reading regulations and taking the word of others.
Well I will get off my high horse now.
BBJ
Spyro,
I never said anything about morals,morals are not the law.Morals are what is instiled into the person,their grit so to say.
I can not say what is moral or immoral,I know what is morral and immoral to me,and I can not judge someone else for their's.It's kinda a like cheating on taxes or cheat on your spouse,what you find immoral or not right, another person might find it down right fine with them,it dose not mean that everyone should belive it.Thats why we have a concece(sp) you know the angel and the devil on our shoulders,we have the right as a person to make up our own minds,it's up to us to deal with the consequnces.
I'am not here to judge or be the protester,I'm here to be my self and true to one's self.
I have knownly broke the law,I have knowingly sped,I have bent the laws,and on several occasions I have had to pay the price.I have done immoral things in my life,I have been moral and just right in my cause,but I still don't try to force what I belive on to someone else.
It's up to us as pepole and to do what we think is right.
If you don't wan't anyone to know what you have done then DON'T TELL THEM,it your buisness not theirs and if you can sleep with your self and still be a good or better person then thats your choice.
I'm not picking a fight with anyone,this in my words my own opion and not the gospel.
Now the law states,here in Montana a person cannot shoot another persons animal,or fill their tags as the tags are non-transferable.
Have I unknowingly broke a game law,yes and I was fined for it,and it was my fault for it.Not reading regulations and taking the word of others.
Well I will get off my high horse now.
BBJ
Do not think you are picking a fight by saying what you just did... there is always room for a thinking man's opinion.
Frankly, I have been fishing for this very response for the last four pages.
Thank you!