Speedgoat

Wolves, now there's a can of worms waiting to be opened. If somebody in washington had asked me if i wanted them re-introduced, the answer would of been a firm no. Since nobody asked, i guess i have no choice but to accept the fact that they are here, now i ask, can we at least get a handle on controlling them, PLEASE!!!!! As for utah and colorado, get ready, they are coming, wether re-introduced or not.

jjt

rather
if you truly beleive this i got some great ocean front property i will sell you here on teh east end of the ranch

the only thing your reimbursed is market value of the carcuss if proven to be a wolf kill

in the end it works out to be about 10% of the actual value of the animal

rather_be_huntin

EKM I actually have been trying to take an angle of there are 2 sub-issues involved in re-introducing wolves.

The first is where the hot debate is. That is what effect do wolves have on the eco-system and should they be here in ANY NUMBER over zero. Feelings have been shared and will continue to be shared. This is the point I've been defending.

The second I think we all pretty much agree on and that is the way the FEDS are handling it. I believe that wolves are having a serious negative impact in some parts in the west. Maybe not many but it is scary thing with them being prtected. The wolves need to be de-listed immediately as far as I'm concerned. Ranchers should be able to shoot a wolf caught in the act of killing livestock. Management numbers need to be established as I feel some areas already have a problem. If I lived in those areas I'd be raising a fit. Not to eliminate the wolf, just that hunting needs to be reinstated and numbers reduced in those areas. I do believe the FEDS have skewed the effect that some areas are suffering with respect to elk numbers. An example is I've read that in some areas calf ratios are under 5 per 100 cows. Instead of telling you that they tell you the average overall calf ratio is 30 to 100 over a large area and then say, "see the wolves aren't over populated." The Yellowstone park and surrounding areas now hold about 674 wolves. I fell this number should be around 200 tops. But these are just my opinions, I'm not qualified to make that recommendation. Basically I think wolves should be here but the GOV is giving in to the bunny-huggers and honestly it does piss me off.

Like Speedgoat says lets PLEASE get some way of controlling them.

rather_be_huntin

That doesn't make sense, if you're reimbursed market value how can that be only 10% of the actual value? Nevermind so even if what you are saying is true, how is that the wolves' fault? Thats our system that needs to be fixed. The solution is de-list them. Thats what we should be pushing for.

justhuntitall

I have to say that DM is right, he speaks from experience. They are not here for a reason they are bad. I know some of you guys feel bad because our bad grandparents killed all the poor little wolves. Well there was a reason kind of like the couger killings that are happen now . They just didnt kill them for the fun of it they where a threat then and they are a threat now. Its that simple. The wolves are no diffrent now then they were in the past the only diffrence, they got Goverment on there side now that makes them worse. If a man went out and killed another mans livestock he goes to jail. If a wolf does he gets it paid for. Putting beast above man is not right.

jjt

the average value of a cow(for slaughter) is between $400 and $500

if they are PROVEN to be killed buy a wolf, as a calf your given the market value around time of death, on a 50# calf at $.80 a pound this is $40 dollars for a cow i should be getting $400-500 in the fall

this is where wolves & predators cost ranchers lots of money

also if they kill an animal that is of higher value you have a limit on what these groups will pay usually $2000 or less

also if wolves chase your livestock to death (common with sheep)or lame an animal(common with horses) it becomes harder or impossible to get any reimbursment.

i am all for management but it isnt going to happen anytime soon. the longer it takes for management to come in to play the stronger my hatred for wolves grows. be it there fault or those dumb@$$es in DC the wolves are the only ones i can effect and have a direct effect on me

i have wrote litterally dozens of requests comments and letters stateing my feelings on the matter to representives/ senators/mayors/US F&G/ state F&G of WY, UT, MT, ID, CO, NM, and AZ
sometimes i get stupid replies like we are trying to find a solution or we are commited to helping but in the end its all a bunch of $h!t and isnt worth the paper, envelope, and stamp

bigbulls

So would you say the same thing about the endangered Siberian and Bengal Tigers? They were certainly a threat to humans and their livestock.

How about the Golden Eagle? They are well known to take lambs, dogs, and numerous other domestic farm animals on a regular basis.

How about the whales, dolphins and sharks in the oceans? They are certainly a threat to all of the fish that we could be eating if they had not eaten thef first. The more they eat the less fish get caught and the less money humans make.

Should we just go out and make extinct an entire species because they eat cows or other livestock or fish? To say that animals like wolves, mountain lions and such are just bad is truely an ignorant statement and statements like that truely show some peoples ignorance towards all of nature and IMO don't deserve to reap the benefist of what nature has to offer them.


So it's somehow the wolves fault that a bunch of idiots are running the show? I don't think so. Hate the idiots in charge not the wolves. So if I pi$$ you off you are going to beat up your neighbor because he is the only one that you can effect at the time? That's just plain stupid.

No one forced you or any of the ranchers into their chosen professions did they? I highly doubt it. Life is all about choices and you, not mom or dad, chose the lifestyle that you live. You made the choice to ranch cattle so live with the good and the bad of the job.

bigbulls

I got an honest question for you jjt.

In another post I remember you saying that on average it costs you aproximately $15,000 each year loosing livestock to wolves? I don't remember how large you said that your property was. How much would it cost you to fence your property to keep out the wolves. How much money are you collectively loosing each year that you do not have a fence around your property compared to the initial cost of fencing your property? Would it be worth biting the bullet and erecting a fence to keep the bad out and saving the money in the long run? Folks in Texas do it all the time.

Not tryint to pick at anything with this question I am just honestly curious to know.

DM

Hey bigbull,

Who's hogging up all the land? The city folk, or the farmers/ranchers????? Where do YOU live???? Do you live in a populated area????

The REAL problem is, we aren't makeing the earth any bigger, we are filling it up with cities, houseing, roads ect.... !!!!

The problem started when the FIRST human got here!! It's went down hill from that moment on, and will NEVER be right again!!!! Adding wolves back into the equation will NOT "make it better", and you will NEVER "have it like it was before humans apeared" again!!!!

We have a choise, keep the predators severly limited, OR remove all humans from this planet!!!!!!!!! There are LOT's of places with plenty of wolves, we just don't need them "all over". You want wolves? Go to the Alaskan bush, or Canadian bush!!!

Untill you have lived with wolves next to YOUR KIDS, YOUR dogs and YOUR other animials, i don't think you know what your talking about!!!

I speak from experence, NOT from reading National Geo!!

Drilling Man

ELKampMaster

DM

That is a little too much common sense for this discussion.

EKM