andy_o

Hey rambo, you said when you got up close to the elk it was like 4 big whitetails laying on the ground. I found out how that was when I walked up on a guy who was gutting and quarting his moose. It looks alot smaller through a set of binoculars or through the window of a veichle. I like what you said about the truck being somewhat close. In your hunts did you use your truck as the center of a three mile radious or did you go in just one general deriction?


EKM you were saying about the air tight bags being a bad thing. I know that meat can let off a pretty good smell and i dont really like the thought of leaving it lying around in griz country. I also know that it is not a good thing for the meat but how else would you keep the meat out of reach of the bears? I figure you should be able to answer this pretty easy being the MASTER and all. (no pun intended just a little frendly humor). But you are right the inexperince is showing through because I am willing to admit to never hunting elk or in grizley country and only know what I have been told and read. If I was experinced I probly wouldnt be asking this.

ELKampMaster

The "master" part applies to setting up one mean elk camp; I am really good at that. As an elk hunter I consider myself a "middle of the road" hunter who knows his area really well, but then I have done it just a little bit over the years. Now meat handling, packing meat out, and butchering meat back in camp is also a forte of mine.

For the most part we find bears to be a non-issue, but that could vary area to area. Now, there are no grizzly where we hunt OR FOR MOST OF THE WEST for that matter. We do have black bear around, but have never lost a quarter to a black bear in the field or in camp and we hang our quarters in good dense shade at chest height. If our group knocks down 4 or 5 elk, then the last quarters to pack out seldom hang in a tree more than 48 hours at the longest before we get them packed out with horses. The quarters need to be put into breathable bags (we like the Alaskan heavy duty synthetic "semi-gauze" bags -- lite to carry but real strong).

If you are in grizzly country (which I would avoid for a one man gig), then you have the choice of taking your chances (just bag it and hang it low in the shade of a stand of north slope trees while you start "hauling away on it" or hanging the meat up high (10-13') where griz can't get to it (easy to talk about but could be a real pain to actually accomplish and is just one more good way to get hurt out in the middle of nowhere and all alone).

One thing for sure, if temperatures warm up at all, then having it in an air tight bag (which will trap moisture, restrict air flow, and make a perfect culture for bacteria) is practically guaranteed for green meat and a smell you'll never forget. Then the bears will be the only ones that will want it. Personally, I'd take my chances with the bears but you might want to listen to some of our grizzly country folks like Bobby on that gamble [take the backstraps and tenderloins out in the first trip ].

We hunt first season (elk only -- no deer) in Colorado [early October] and it can get real warm. We like to see a rind (hard, dried layer) develop on our skinned quarters. Blow fly larvae have a hard time penetrating it and it just doesn't seem to spoil as easy if it "rinds up". Just in case the temperature and the humidity is up and the rind isn't setting up we carry a propane torch with a "fan" head in our field dressing bag along with the panniers on the horse so we can "encourage" the process along if necessary.
======================

For first time do it yourself-do it by yourself:
Don't go into grizzly country,
Do a drop camp,
Have someone "keep track of you"
Do pay to have horses pack it out for you.

In looking at the success rates for Colorado for 2003 including my area and adjacent ones, it averaged 15-20% for elk, stack the odds in your favor a little bit, join up with someone who knows or pay an outfitter -- you can learn a lot FAST. Even the State of Colorado calls showing up inexperienced and new to the game and just winging it the "Five Year Plan"!

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

BareBack Jack

Andy_o,
My advice to you would be,do it.If thats what you wanna do then do it.It is alot a work but it can be done.I have packed elk out on my back,it was not easy work.If you don't go prepared you can be in trouble.I have seen men,physicaly & mentaly break down on a elk hunt,I mean sit right down and cry,cause they did not know what they were getting them selves into.So to save you from this and anyone around you.
Here are some questions for you.
What time of year September or November.Weather is as deadly as any grizz or fall.
What to eat? How to keep it safe.
Water,were to get it,how to keep it safe to drink?
Shelter,if you are not planning for snow,count on it cause it will snow.
How do you plan to hunt?Nomadic or one camp and work from there.
What to do when you get your elk,a big bull can be just as big as a horse.
If you get one how do you plan to get it out,pack frame,freighter,horses.
You can do a do-it-yourself hunt from some of the best public hunting areas and you don't have to walk 10 miles in.Colorado,Montana,Wyoming have some great easy access hunting and you can do the camper as base camp and go out from there.Outfitters will usaly pack a elk out for you for around 200 to 300 bucks,if you have prior aragements.
These are a few ? for ya.With planning and proper equipment you can have a experiance of a lifetime.
BBJ

andy_o

Like I have said in earlyer posts I am unexperenced at elk hunting. However I am not unexperinced in backpacking and camping. I have been doing it alot through the past 10 years or so. I am not trying to say that there is nothing that I dont know, or that Im perfect. I just enjoy hunting, backpacking, camping, and just spending time in the outdoors.


From what I have been reading the do it all yourself is probly not a good idea especially for living out of state. I do how ever like the idea of having an outfitter that will help with packing the meat out and giving you an area to hunt.


Im going to extend this post to also ask if anyone has input on what state would be good to give a try, and some advice on an outfitter who could give me help with meat packing and the land.

BareBack Jack

Andy_O
I wasn't tring to insult your abilities,if you are sure you wan't to doit then go for it.
As the other hunters in this post have all learned from past expirience.You will do the same,I'm sure.
Alot of hunters go to Colorado for the first hunt,from what I hear there are elk around every turn.EKM is a good person for info from,since he is from Colorado and he knows his stuff,from Camp to kettle.
If you are going with a outfitter,you best be calling and doing some reaserch fast,cause alot of states are reaching deadlines for tags,like Montana.
If you still decide to go on your own,we all here will help as much as posible with your questions.
BBJ

andy_o

Hey Jack, I am thinking that for first time elk hunting that I should probly go with a outfitter. You said these guys have learned from experince and I know that untill I actually go I will never really know how it is. I dont want to sound like im saying that after one hunt Im goin to know everything but I will have an idea on what the hunting is like.


You were talking about deadlines coming up soon. How do I get information about getting a tag. Is tere a lottory or can you buy one? I know up here in maine that you can just get your deer and bear tag by buying but moose require a permit which you have to go through a lottry to get. I am still yet to get one.[:@]




Does anybody have ideas on what state and outfitter I should look into? I am not looking for a trophy only hunt but I wouldnt turn it down. Basically whare is the best place to have a high chance of filling the tag and maby even getting a good sized bull.

BareBack Jack

Andy_o
A lot of states have a lottery for tags,like Montana has so many tags for no-resident hunters.They give so many to outtfitters,and the rest is up for grabs by non-outfitted hunters.A outfitter sponsored tag almost garuntees you a tag bot they can cost you plenty.
I think Colorado offers over the counter tags for elk,I don't know if they are either-sex or just cow,I'm sure they have drawing also for select areas.
Look on the web for DNR's for Colorado,or Fish,Wild Life and park's
For Montana go to www.fwp.state.mt.us,I think the application deadline is March 15 for non-residents.
Hope this helps BBJ

Hale87

Andy, colorado division of wildlife. Go to their web page and you can look at harvest reports for the enitre state. Outfitter? Ask Cherokee, he does pack in hunts in the lower part of the state. Units 80, and 81 I believe. If you already know how to hunt and spend all year reading this board, you'll be well prepared for your first hunt. I did this very same thing last year, and was successful. Plus CO is a lot like Maine in the fact that it's cut up pretty good with roads. Good luck.

Elkcrazy8

I have done alot of back country elk hunting during the bow season, and have killed bulls when by myself. I hunt in the heart of bear country. Keep a clean camp and you will be better off. Many of the posts give awesome information. Here is a trick for keeping the meat in very hot weather. You will here from many people about not putting the meat in the creeks. This can be done if done correctly. I bone out the meat and put it in meat sacks. After putting the meat into meat sacks I will double bag the meat with plastic sacks. After doing this I will squeeze all of the air out. At this point I have several different pools in the cold stream that are in the shade. I will wade out and put the protected meat sacks under the water and put rocks on top. After a couple of days the meat is still cold and refrigerated. This buys me the time that I need to get it all out. When the outer bags are opened the meat is dry and ice cold. I will try at that point to do all of my packing in the cooler part of the day. Also with the meat hidden and protected under the water the predators are less likely to find it on you. I haven't lost a bit of meat yet. Again, all of the information on the posts should be taken into consideration. It can be the hardest hunt that you will ever go on, but it can almost be the most rewarding.

ELKampMaster

Elkcrazy8,

What kind of bags do you use and how do you make the seal (other than double bagging -- knots? tape? zip locs? ).
Any reason why it would NOT work with whole quarters (aside from sharp bone cuts, more waste space, and more bags)?

Depending on how many hunters show up in our camp with horses (1 two years ago, 3 last year) I sometimes worry what if we get 6 or 7 elk down opening morning and it is turning more than warm, i.e. HOT --- then what to do if it is even too warm in the shade for temporary storage and the "clock is running" on that much fine elk flesh and the ole hoss can only pack it out so fast. I haven't had that "problem" unfold for my group yet but I HAVE been burdening the pack horse (which we take with us each day) with a field dressing "kit" that also includes a dozen heavy heavy 55 gal trash can liners. The idea being that if it turns THAT warm we would quarter away, start the horse out with the first load and then move the other quarters into cold water temporarily (meat below water level and top open to the air above) until those quarters could make their trip out.

I like your idea of tight wrapping it and just getting it all under water level as it would be simpler, but would want to be sure it stays "dry". Speaking of dry, running water is NOT in great supply in my area, hence the following questions (aside from your sealing method):

How about ponds that had thin ice on them "that morning" versus flowing water?
How about if the pond is NOT in the shade but the water is very murky (yuck type stuff, but still damn cold to the touch and will lightly freeze over again that night)?
Probably not as good as running water in the shade, but perhaps for 24 hours versus 48-72 hours?

Just looking for a "safety valve" for the situation of too much good luck on a warm, warm day -- any thougts on the matter are appreciated.

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM