Running Shots -->
03-08-2004, 07:23 PM
#31
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 330
RE: Running Shots -->
It would obviously have to be a clear, open shot, before I would. A whitetail bounding, or a bear lumbering along also makes a difference and are two totally different shots. The area I exclusively hunt in my home state for whitetails will either be a stand or still hunt scenario. I do not do drives, or push deer, so it very rarely will presnt itself. The deer are generally not pressured.
03-10-2004, 09:30 AM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 287
RE: Running Shots -->
I never make a running shot. If the game has caught you at 100 yards you are not doing your job.
EDIT POINT: In my youth I thought I was hot @$#t and tried a running shot. Dumbest thing I ever did, a little fever had a lot to do with it. Left a really bad taste in my heart as well as no taste in the freezer.
EDIT POINT: In my youth I thought I was hot @$#t and tried a running shot. Dumbest thing I ever did, a little fever had a lot to do with it. Left a really bad taste in my heart as well as no taste in the freezer.
03-10-2004, 01:06 PM
#33
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: Running Shots -->
The furthest whitetail I've ever shot with a rifle was about 95 stepped off yards, (though I shot one at about 115 yards with a 12 gauge sabot slug). Maybe if you have to shoot past 100.....you are not doing your job!
(I know that's stirring the pot....and I am only joking!)
My intent is to point out different conditions.....in differing locations....call for different techniques! A whitetail trotting through hardwoods at reasonably close ranges are frequently not terribly difficult to hit well.....for an experienced shooter. But I always believe in erring on the side of caution.
Dave
(I know that's stirring the pot....and I am only joking!)My intent is to point out different conditions.....in differing locations....call for different techniques! A whitetail trotting through hardwoods at reasonably close ranges are frequently not terribly difficult to hit well.....for an experienced shooter. But I always believe in erring on the side of caution.
Dave
03-10-2004, 01:25 PM
#34
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mtn. Hse. Alberta
Posts: 823
RE: Running Shots -->
In Outdoors original post he says "...don't use a calculator as you don't take one in the woods with you..."
Actually I do take a calculator and a computer into the woods with me. It is the "hair covered" one (well mostly hair covered). Given a hunting situation you feed the information into your "brain" and based on the factors and your past experience, knowledge, practice, ethics, etc. you deside if it is right and good to take the shot.
Often afterwards people say they should have taken a shot, when they didn't. That may be because their computer has looked at some factors in a diffrent light (the season is over and they have an unused tag).
Robin
Actually I do take a calculator and a computer into the woods with me. It is the "hair covered" one (well mostly hair covered). Given a hunting situation you feed the information into your "brain" and based on the factors and your past experience, knowledge, practice, ethics, etc. you deside if it is right and good to take the shot.
Often afterwards people say they should have taken a shot, when they didn't. That may be because their computer has looked at some factors in a diffrent light (the season is over and they have an unused tag).
Robin
03-10-2004, 04:01 PM
#36
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: Running Shots -->
Hi Outdoor,
Actually I have had quite a number of running shots that were considerably easier than some of the "standing shots" I've made. If you don't feel comfortable taking a shot.....then by all means don't take it!
I will agree with you though that many people take shots they shouldn't! But that goes for any number of situations....not only running shots!
Dave
Actually I have had quite a number of running shots that were considerably easier than some of the "standing shots" I've made. If you don't feel comfortable taking a shot.....then by all means don't take it!
I will agree with you though that many people take shots they shouldn't! But that goes for any number of situations....not only running shots!
Dave
03-11-2004, 11:50 AM
#37
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: Running Shots -->
When I was 16 years old I saw a little fork horned buck bouncing my direction. I had a scoped 30-30 lever action marlin rifle. It held I think 8 shells total. As it bounced 100 yds in front of me I let the lead fly. The last two shots of 8 hit one front leg and one back leg. The deer then "surrendered" and laid on the ground in obvious pain, it nearly brought me to tears. It was not a pretty sight as he cried out in pain. Any muley hunter knows a muley rarely makes a sound. Once he was on the ground and not moving one bullet was all it took to finish him and he was laying at close to 200 yds at that point. The fact that I could barely wound him with 8 shots at 100-150 yds while he was moving and it took only one clean shot to harvest the animal at nearly 200 yds while he was stationary taught me a very valuable lesson.
To reinforce that lesson 2 years later I was hunting muley bucks once again. I had another deer running I followed him in my scope and despite my better judgement and filled with buck fever I decided to shoot. Just as I started to sqeeze the trigger my scope filled with orange. Thats right somehow another hunter, not from my group, had walked out of a group of trees. Because I was floowing the deer with my scope I didn't see the other hunter as I had turned probably close to 90 degrees. Didn't pull the trigger, THANK GOD!!! But thats all it took for me to learn that lesson.
I will take a shot on a WALKING animal at 100 yds, but not running 20 MPH. I will put the bead on him and wait for him to stop. I will also call to try and get him to stop.
To reinforce that lesson 2 years later I was hunting muley bucks once again. I had another deer running I followed him in my scope and despite my better judgement and filled with buck fever I decided to shoot. Just as I started to sqeeze the trigger my scope filled with orange. Thats right somehow another hunter, not from my group, had walked out of a group of trees. Because I was floowing the deer with my scope I didn't see the other hunter as I had turned probably close to 90 degrees. Didn't pull the trigger, THANK GOD!!! But thats all it took for me to learn that lesson.
I will take a shot on a WALKING animal at 100 yds, but not running 20 MPH. I will put the bead on him and wait for him to stop. I will also call to try and get him to stop.
03-12-2004, 08:07 AM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 287
RE: Running Shots -->
Err on the side of caution. I agree. Not taking the shot in my humlble opinion is not an error. Using a slug? never had to.
Off the bench I group quarters at 100 and 200 yds and am very comfortable with those distances.
Never ever hunted whitetail - am going to try with a bow this year - any pointers I can gleen from you?
Off the bench I group quarters at 100 and 200 yds and am very comfortable with those distances.
Never ever hunted whitetail - am going to try with a bow this year - any pointers I can gleen from you?
03-13-2004, 06:01 AM
#40
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: Running Shots -->
Hi Poluke,
I'm a bad choice to seek archery advice on whitetail, or any other species as well. When I switched from compounds back to traditional equipment in the early 90's I decided if I couldn't put in a minimum of six months out of the year shooting prior to the season.....I wouldn't hunt with a bow that year. (I was tuning my compound one day when it hit me that my bow, both weighed more....and was more mechanically contrived than my .338 Win Mag was. That was the day I cased the PSE.....and never had it out again until I gave it, equipment and all, to a friend. Went out that very week and found a Jerry Hill longbow I liked. Have been shooting recurves or longbows since.) And the last handful of years have contrived to prevent that practice from happening. So while I continue to field shoot when I have opportunities.....I won't bowhunt again until I can devote the necessary time to maintain proficiency.
The reason I commented on the running shots were various. But hunting predominantly eastern hardwoods for a majority of my life I make every effort to set up a good standing shot. Usually with fairly good success. But in my mind at least whitetail typically move in one of three "running gaits" (other than walking). Just slightly faster than walking is a "slow trot" where the pace is a little faster than walking.....but definitely not bounding. They frequently are moving through their range at this speed during Pennsylvania gun season......especially on public hunting lands....because they are "jostled" constantly by the sheer number of hunters in the short gun season. The next gait they seem to exhibit is a "bounding type" gait. They are moving considerably faster than a trot...and their body is bounding...as in leaping up, and down. And finally, they have an extremely fast run. Were they seem to just pin their ears back, run low to the ground, and flat out "get it".
I have found when deer are moving in their "slow trot", at reasonably close range, (which has literally been anything from nearly muzzle contact distance.......to typical hardwoods ranges), they are not significantly harder to hit consistently well with a centerfire rifle than when they are walking. The deer I took at 95 stepped off yards was slow trotting through open hardwoods when I hit her behind the shoulder with a 200 grain Power Point from a .356 Winchester. Her momentum took her two additional steps up hill, she fell, and slid back to the spot where the bullet had hit her. She was dead before I could shoot a second time! I had a 2 1/2 power scope on the rifle at that time.....it was a slightly quartering away shot....no intervening brush (very unusual at that range where I typically hunt)....and a very easy shot. My rifle, forearm cradle in my non-firing hand, resting on a downed tree, was as easy a shot as any I've made on game. I was sitting for the shot....by the way! But in my experience when deer are moving in this very deliberate, kind of slow trot, when other factors are good......they are not terribly challenging targets. (Like I said earlier.....many of those shots have been at extremely close range. More under 50 yards than over!)
When deer are "bounding". I won't take the shot unless shooting at a previously wounded animal. It is just too difficult to always time the bounds properly. If there is someone out there that can do it consistently in brushy hardwoods....they are welcome to do so. I am NOT one of them! When I see them bounding....they'd literally have to jump in my lap....before I'd shoot! I will however watch them closely in anticipation that they may either stop......or change their gait to present a shot I can make.
And finally when they are flat out getting it.....I am not inclined to take many of those. Though there have been exceptions. One was a deer my wife kick off the hill above me and she was bounding down the hill towards me. When she saw me at about 25 to 30 yards she pinned her ears back, hunched down, and flat out got it. But she continued straight towards me. She passed me flat out at less than 5 yards. I could almost have tripped her. Just as she was passing me I hit her right front shoulder with a 150 grain from a .308 Winchester. She continued right past me down the hill nearly 100 yards before piling up in a heap. Her right front leg, just below the shoulder was smashed....her heart and lungs just ran out of her in liquid form when I opened her up. And several other shots I have taken at deer "flat out running hard" have either been straight towards me......or much more often....straight away. A straight on presentation is no more difficult to hit.....than a standing shot. However putting the bullet exactly where you want it.....does take more concentration. Plus there are other factors as well. If I'm shooting my .260 Remington with 120 grain Ballistic Tips I will NOT take a straight away shot. I don't trust that bullet/cartridge combination to penetrate deeply enough. (If I was using a good controlled expansion 140 grain bullet....then I'd trust that cartridge for the needed penetration.) If I'm shooting my .30-06 with 180 grain round nose CoreLokts, or my .350 Remington Magnum with 200 grain CoreLokts, I'll take that shot if my scope settles with a sight picture that looks good! So there are really many factors involved. But undoubtedly the most important part of the equation is the person behind the gun! If that person is ethical and has the maturity to know themself.....and their capability.....and to "not take a questionable shot"......then it isn't a problem. And that is the biggest problem with asking a question like that....in a forum like this!
Also I will note. That of the some numbers of caribou I took running. They were also travelling at that "slow kind of gait" that caribou use when they are moving.....but not terribly concerned. (Though frequently if you wait.....caribou will just up and stop. It's almost as if they forget what they are running from. And just have to stop and look again to remind themselves.) I've taken shots at caribou trotting over 100 yards away and they have been "dead simple" shots. After having grown up trying to pick out a shot through the woods, laurel, rocks, etc. a caribou trotting in the open......is not difficult! You do however need to insure that you are not going to hit more than one with a pass through. (250 grain Nosler Partitions from a .338 Winchester....pass through a caribou everytime that I've ever seen them used. Caribou don't need that much bullet...but caribou live in Grizzly country!) The longest shot I've taken on unwounded big game was over 300 yards on a standing caribou. The longest shot I've taken at any unwounded animal is on woodchucks at well over 400 yards. (Paper targets up to 1000 yards.....military rifle teams.) So I don't believe I take iffy shots.....or poor percentage shots. And I believe we all owe that to the animals we hunt!
And was said in a previous post. If you have difficulty controlling your emotions....then you shouldn't be taking the shot! (Doesn't matter if "your blood is up" or not. Control your excitement or don't shoot.) And never take a shot where you are not absolutely certain who.....or what.....is in your field of fire! And you mentioned another of my "hot buttons". When I see people looking at me through their scope....it pi**es me off bad. A rifle scope is a rifle sight....pure and simple. They make binoculars for scanning. I have literally had to walk over to people and "ask them politely" to not aim their rifle at me! Usually they comment I wasn't aiming.....just looking. So I remind them it's a "riflesight"......not a monocular! But, I don't like it for certain. I survived 20 plus years in the Infantry......I don't want some "airhead", (polite language), shooting me out of ignorance! I don't use my scope for scanning either. (Now, if we can just convince the rest of them!)
Dave
P.S. Good luck on your upcoming whitetail hunt!
I'm a bad choice to seek archery advice on whitetail, or any other species as well. When I switched from compounds back to traditional equipment in the early 90's I decided if I couldn't put in a minimum of six months out of the year shooting prior to the season.....I wouldn't hunt with a bow that year. (I was tuning my compound one day when it hit me that my bow, both weighed more....and was more mechanically contrived than my .338 Win Mag was. That was the day I cased the PSE.....and never had it out again until I gave it, equipment and all, to a friend. Went out that very week and found a Jerry Hill longbow I liked. Have been shooting recurves or longbows since.) And the last handful of years have contrived to prevent that practice from happening. So while I continue to field shoot when I have opportunities.....I won't bowhunt again until I can devote the necessary time to maintain proficiency.
The reason I commented on the running shots were various. But hunting predominantly eastern hardwoods for a majority of my life I make every effort to set up a good standing shot. Usually with fairly good success. But in my mind at least whitetail typically move in one of three "running gaits" (other than walking). Just slightly faster than walking is a "slow trot" where the pace is a little faster than walking.....but definitely not bounding. They frequently are moving through their range at this speed during Pennsylvania gun season......especially on public hunting lands....because they are "jostled" constantly by the sheer number of hunters in the short gun season. The next gait they seem to exhibit is a "bounding type" gait. They are moving considerably faster than a trot...and their body is bounding...as in leaping up, and down. And finally, they have an extremely fast run. Were they seem to just pin their ears back, run low to the ground, and flat out "get it".
I have found when deer are moving in their "slow trot", at reasonably close range, (which has literally been anything from nearly muzzle contact distance.......to typical hardwoods ranges), they are not significantly harder to hit consistently well with a centerfire rifle than when they are walking. The deer I took at 95 stepped off yards was slow trotting through open hardwoods when I hit her behind the shoulder with a 200 grain Power Point from a .356 Winchester. Her momentum took her two additional steps up hill, she fell, and slid back to the spot where the bullet had hit her. She was dead before I could shoot a second time! I had a 2 1/2 power scope on the rifle at that time.....it was a slightly quartering away shot....no intervening brush (very unusual at that range where I typically hunt)....and a very easy shot. My rifle, forearm cradle in my non-firing hand, resting on a downed tree, was as easy a shot as any I've made on game. I was sitting for the shot....by the way! But in my experience when deer are moving in this very deliberate, kind of slow trot, when other factors are good......they are not terribly challenging targets. (Like I said earlier.....many of those shots have been at extremely close range. More under 50 yards than over!)
When deer are "bounding". I won't take the shot unless shooting at a previously wounded animal. It is just too difficult to always time the bounds properly. If there is someone out there that can do it consistently in brushy hardwoods....they are welcome to do so. I am NOT one of them! When I see them bounding....they'd literally have to jump in my lap....before I'd shoot! I will however watch them closely in anticipation that they may either stop......or change their gait to present a shot I can make.
And finally when they are flat out getting it.....I am not inclined to take many of those. Though there have been exceptions. One was a deer my wife kick off the hill above me and she was bounding down the hill towards me. When she saw me at about 25 to 30 yards she pinned her ears back, hunched down, and flat out got it. But she continued straight towards me. She passed me flat out at less than 5 yards. I could almost have tripped her. Just as she was passing me I hit her right front shoulder with a 150 grain from a .308 Winchester. She continued right past me down the hill nearly 100 yards before piling up in a heap. Her right front leg, just below the shoulder was smashed....her heart and lungs just ran out of her in liquid form when I opened her up. And several other shots I have taken at deer "flat out running hard" have either been straight towards me......or much more often....straight away. A straight on presentation is no more difficult to hit.....than a standing shot. However putting the bullet exactly where you want it.....does take more concentration. Plus there are other factors as well. If I'm shooting my .260 Remington with 120 grain Ballistic Tips I will NOT take a straight away shot. I don't trust that bullet/cartridge combination to penetrate deeply enough. (If I was using a good controlled expansion 140 grain bullet....then I'd trust that cartridge for the needed penetration.) If I'm shooting my .30-06 with 180 grain round nose CoreLokts, or my .350 Remington Magnum with 200 grain CoreLokts, I'll take that shot if my scope settles with a sight picture that looks good! So there are really many factors involved. But undoubtedly the most important part of the equation is the person behind the gun! If that person is ethical and has the maturity to know themself.....and their capability.....and to "not take a questionable shot"......then it isn't a problem. And that is the biggest problem with asking a question like that....in a forum like this!
Also I will note. That of the some numbers of caribou I took running. They were also travelling at that "slow kind of gait" that caribou use when they are moving.....but not terribly concerned. (Though frequently if you wait.....caribou will just up and stop. It's almost as if they forget what they are running from. And just have to stop and look again to remind themselves.) I've taken shots at caribou trotting over 100 yards away and they have been "dead simple" shots. After having grown up trying to pick out a shot through the woods, laurel, rocks, etc. a caribou trotting in the open......is not difficult! You do however need to insure that you are not going to hit more than one with a pass through. (250 grain Nosler Partitions from a .338 Winchester....pass through a caribou everytime that I've ever seen them used. Caribou don't need that much bullet...but caribou live in Grizzly country!
) The longest shot I've taken on unwounded big game was over 300 yards on a standing caribou. The longest shot I've taken at any unwounded animal is on woodchucks at well over 400 yards. (Paper targets up to 1000 yards.....military rifle teams.) So I don't believe I take iffy shots.....or poor percentage shots. And I believe we all owe that to the animals we hunt!And was said in a previous post. If you have difficulty controlling your emotions....then you shouldn't be taking the shot! (Doesn't matter if "your blood is up" or not. Control your excitement or don't shoot.) And never take a shot where you are not absolutely certain who.....or what.....is in your field of fire! And you mentioned another of my "hot buttons". When I see people looking at me through their scope....it pi**es me off bad. A rifle scope is a rifle sight....pure and simple. They make binoculars for scanning. I have literally had to walk over to people and "ask them politely" to not aim their rifle at me! Usually they comment I wasn't aiming.....just looking. So I remind them it's a "riflesight"......not a monocular! But, I don't like it for certain. I survived 20 plus years in the Infantry......I don't want some "airhead", (polite language), shooting me out of ignorance! I don't use my scope for scanning either. (Now, if we can just convince the rest of them!)
Dave
P.S. Good luck on your upcoming whitetail hunt!