Wolf killer

cherokee_outfitters
If you are killing 30" mule deer bucks on public land every year you need to contact me. I would gladly double the $500 trophy fee.
I think the toughest trophy to take is a 30" or larger mule deer buck on public land.

deerdust

At IMB Outfitters, we do not charge a trophy fee, but we will always try to get you on the biggest buck. Unless it is a fenced operation , I don't see how they can promise you that you will get the oportunity to shoot at a trophy buck. And unless the outfitter or guide is there with you, while you are hunting, what is to stop you from shooting a trophy buck when you haven't paid to shoot one. We sit many hours filming and watching our properties to know what is passing through the area where our hunters will be. But that in no way determines that the 190 class buck we have on film is going to come through on the day when the hunter is in the stand or even while he is in camp. But if a hunter is not seeing deer movement, we will place them in another location to try and get them on the big boy. And as to a trophy (whitetail), there are tons of Pope and Young bucks out there that will make the trophy range, but come nowhere near the Boone and Crocket stats.

MA Jay

I will never book with an outfitter that charges a trophy fee. The reason is simple....

If you pay up front a set price, you are paying for the service of a guide and the right to hunt with that person on private or even public land. Regardless or not if you score ... you have bought the right to hunt for an animal that you will call a "trophy".

If you do harvest an animal, through the efforts of your guide, your own hunting skill or even dumb luck I would be happy. If I then had to turn around and pay a "trophy fee" for that animal, now that it was on the ground .. I have now switched from paying for the right to hunt to paying for a particular animal .. and that is wrong in my opinion. We can buy beef, pork and even domesticated venison and bison and there is nothing wrong with this .. but the moment a hunter is purchasing wild game the same way he buys his groceries he has ceased in any way to be hunting... at that point he's just paying for meat/horns, not dissimilar to going to a butcher.

That is just my personal opinion, and is shared by many of my friends.

Outdoor

TX Hunter you have brought up an interesting point..Adding a fee for harvesting a certain animal is paying more but not sure if its selling...Guides would just say we charged more for that animal because of what we had to do to get it.
I guess thats what bothers me most..in my profession we do the BEST we can all the time! Maybe we should start a trophy fee for projects that required a little extra effort?

Hale87
I understand your point and for me the money is not the issue..it's just principle. If a outfitter gives 100% every time he or she guides then each and every trip is for a trophy. I guess the "trophy fee" gives me the feeling that the guide is saying "I 'll give 90% BUT if you pay me a trophy fee I'll give 100%"

hhmag

I have been an outfitter for some time in Africa. Our system there is based on the Brittish system of fees. When we hunt on private land, the animals are considered as livestock. You are basically "buying" the animal from the landowner or tribe upon whose land you hunt. On private land here, the guide, if he is not the landowner may need to cover his expenses as far as leasing goes, or he may lease on a per head basis, necessitating trophy fees. I don't agree with trophy fees on public land animals. You may charge license fees, brokerage fees for obtaining liscenses (minimal administrative costs) etcetera, but a trophy fee, in the classical sense, is not warranted
However, here in Florida, some animals (non-native species) are considered property of the landowner, so exotic game ranches, etc. have every right to sell these animals off for trophy fees. That landowner has given up cattle or crops, and he is making his living selling these hunted species as a product.
In South Africa, as in much of Europe, there is no hunting left on public lands. Many farmers have fenced thier lands (not to keep animals in, but to keep poachers out-game fences do very little in keeping most African animals contained) and let them get overgrown. The concessions we hunt range from 2000 to 30,000 acres, but are all privately owned. These dedicated game concessions' sole income is from trophy fees charged to American and European hunters for killing thier "livestock."
Trophy fees definitely have their place, but outfitters here charging them only because others are "getting away with it" is just wrong. I'm all for a guy making an honest living, but in some instances, it's not appropriate.

cherokee_outfitters

When you play the stock market does your broker give your money back if your stock drops off the chart. Nope don't think so.

I guess I'm in the wrong business everyone seems to think us outfitters are raking in the bucks. Maybe there are some out there that are. Well I'll let you in on a little secret. Every outfitter I know personally has an alternate job to make it through the rest of the year. Mine happens to be carptentry. We could make more money building houses than taking out hunters. But my passion in life is guiding and hunting. But it doesn't pay the bills all that well. You have to pay the forest service their 3% of your gross right off the top. Then for every camp you get charged $150. Then you shoe 20 head of horses three times a year for a rough figure of $3000 per year. Then the hay for those horses costs about $7000. Thats not including worming and doctoring bills. Then theres insurance and bonding cost of $2500 per year. Food for the camp and upkeep on equipment. That's just the basic costs. Not to mention vehicle upkeep and trailer repairs for those rough roads.

All in all it takes somewhere around $12000 dollars just to get off the ground everyyear. That's takes up 5 of my clients money just to be able to pay the basic bills so we can show people a whole new world.

Being we don't run numbers of clients like some do. We usually take between 10 to 15 people a year that's making less than half of the gross in profit. Yes we could make alot more and run more clients but I prefer to run less clients and make those we take happy people.

We always put everything on the table before the people come hunting. Theres no surprises or added exspenses throughout the trip. Pay the higher price if you want. But we offer hunts and don't charge for trophy's until you get one. That's more far to the hunters than raising the price to include the trophy from the start.

By the way I only know one way to hunt and that's 100%. Worn out, hungry, bleeding, and froze to death I'll be out there doing what I was born to do. My favorite kind of client is a first time elk hunter, their not all stuck on trophies anyway. They are there for the experience and to have a good time.

txhunter58

I haven't heard anyone say that outfitters were making lots of money. As much as I love hunting, lots of people ask me why I don't run an outfitting business. I tell them because it is too much hard work for not enough money! Also, if I did it for a living, I probably wouldn't love it as much. I want it as an escape.

Regardless of what people say, if you have 2 reputable outfitters who have similar game, success rates, and references, if 1 charges $2500 with a $500 trophy fee and one charges $3000, I think most would choose the trophy fee outfitter. However, if both charged $3000 up front and one still charged the trophy fee, most would go with the one who didn't charge extra. Simple economics. If you indeed offer a quality hunt, then you are on the mid to lower fees for an outfitted hunt. I know of another outfitter in your area that charges $3500 up front. The fact that you charge less up front, with the trophy fees should attract as much business as you can handle.

Still not sure about the absolute legality of trophy fees, but would I consider hunting with you if I ever had the chance? Absolutely.

Hale87

Guys I know how you feel. Believe me, up until a few years ago I felt the same way. That was before I wasted a week in BC on a Moose/Mule deer combo hunt. What a waste of time, and my money! I saw four moose that week and one deer. My one and only chance to take anything was a disappearing baby bull going up over a hill into the pines. The guide told me to shoot it up the ass. Literally, he's standing beside me screaming at me to shoot it up the ass. I'm 42 and I've hunted my entire life as a good old boy from PA. That hunt there was my first paid hunt, and quite honestly soured me towards the entire industry. This guy from BC runs a numbers game with very little success on anything else but black bear. There was probably ten hunters in camp that week with probably 15 tags, and only one of which was filled. I stumbled over another hunter on huntreport.com, they actually used his as an example for a bad report. I called the guy and he told me the same thing happened to the group that was there the week before myself. They completely misrepresented the hunt from the start to the finish. I was 37 at the time and in pretty damn good shape. I spent the summer preparing for that hunt by running two and three times a week and shooting my gun the same. I was told many of the things a "true" hunter would want to hear, spot and stalk, cutting a track, blah, blah, blah. I sat in a truck riding around for most of the week. It was a two on one hunt, so you spent half of the time in the back of an extended cab ford. I get car sick, so half of the time I felt like ****! After complaining for three days, the guide finally left us out. We walked back into a cut block and the guide looked at me and told me nobody had ever walked this far before! What a joke, on a real day of hunting I would have killed him. We saw four mooose that week and three of the four while we were out of the truck, but you almost had to threaten the guy to get out. I could go on about this all day long, but I'll spare you the time. Bottom line here is don't blame me, blame the industry for my lack of trust.

hhmag

Cherokee,
You are right in that most of us outfitters have "day jobs." Every one that I know does. I'm not saying that we shouldn't make a buck, but we just need to break down our prices to justify what money we do take in. Every operating cost you mentioned should be covered by your daily fees. For instance: I charge a nominal daily fee of $380/day to my hunting clients. That covers thier lodging, food, drinks, gas, camp help, permits, and my butt in the bush. That's just South Africa-in Tanzania I also have to pay a daily fee to the government as well as pay the salary of a game warden to accompany every hunt I do there (talk about pressure). The extra fees there have to include a bush plane to get us in and out and to be on standby for us, a deposit/retainer for the air ambulance, a radio operator with his equipment, extra security people, and bribes in the right places. I have to charge my clients an extra $750/day, and my profit is still only about 100 a day. That's to fly half way around the world and trapse thru the African bush!
In South Africa, I must pay the landowner for the trophy, as the government considers it his property and he is selling it to me. I had to pay a permit fee of about $50 to shoot that animal, and then the owner's fee. Generally the price that I have to pay is about 20% lower than what I charge, and I call that my prep money, skinning and transporting to the taxidermist. My client pays for the prep and crating to ship his trophies home, and he knows this up front. I just can't understand the trophy fee setup here on public land. If outfitters charge a daily fee for a hunt, or a flat rate fee for a timed hunt, that fee should cover his expenses. Charge prep fees if you want, or work out a deal with a local taxidermist so that your client knows if you shoot an animal, it goes to this guy for prep and it will cost $xx.
The reason I charge $880 for my client to shoot a zebra is because the going rate on a zebra in South Africa is about $720, and I still have to skin it, salt it, prep the meat for the landowner (they usually keep the meat to feed their staff and some goes to my camp), and transport the trophy sometimes 500 miles to the taxidermist. In this case, I think it is a justifiable expense. After paying the permit, camp and other incurred costs of hunting public land here by way of the daily fee and possible prep fees, where is the extra cost you are justifying by a trophy fee? If I could make $500 by skinning a single elk, I should be in Colorado!

cherokee_outfitters

hhmag,

Your welcome to come try colorado. You'd have to buy someone out beings they don't issue no more licsenses until someone quits. Maybe it does seem like its an greedy attempt to charge more money. We never looked at it that way. I'm sure by next year the trophy fee will not be a concern. But the combination price will still be there.