300 win mag
02-07-2004, 11:02 AM
#12
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: 300 win mag
Hi ELKampMaster,
There's nothing in the world wrong with big guns. And you'll never hear me suggest to anyone that they should stay away from them. Unless I've seen them shoot.....and know they are afraid of their rifle, shotgun, etc. and as a result.....can't shoot!
I use and beleive in heavy calibers....and heavy bullets. But if you can't shoot them....don't use them. I have a brother-in-law that is a perfect example. He weighs over 300 pounds....is afraid of his .30-06, flinches....and can't shoot it worth a dang. He was better off with a .270 Winchester he had a number of years ago. And truth be told....he'd been better still with something like a .260 Remington or a .257 Roberts.
Whatever gun you use....make sure you can actually shoot it! That's all! I shot a 12 gauge well before I was 12, (the legal hunting age in Pennsylvania). But my recoil tolerance, your recoil tolerance....has little to do with anyone else's recoil tolerance.
Not every nail takes a sledge....I use a "tack hammer on tacks!"
There's nothing in the world wrong with big guns. And you'll never hear me suggest to anyone that they should stay away from them. Unless I've seen them shoot.....and know they are afraid of their rifle, shotgun, etc. and as a result.....can't shoot!
I use and beleive in heavy calibers....and heavy bullets. But if you can't shoot them....don't use them. I have a brother-in-law that is a perfect example. He weighs over 300 pounds....is afraid of his .30-06, flinches....and can't shoot it worth a dang. He was better off with a .270 Winchester he had a number of years ago. And truth be told....he'd been better still with something like a .260 Remington or a .257 Roberts.
Whatever gun you use....make sure you can actually shoot it! That's all! I shot a 12 gauge well before I was 12, (the legal hunting age in Pennsylvania). But my recoil tolerance, your recoil tolerance....has little to do with anyone else's recoil tolerance.
Not every nail takes a sledge....I use a "tack hammer on tacks!"
02-07-2004, 05:24 PM
#13
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 36
RE: 300 win mag
I think alot would depend on how the stock and balance of the rifle fit him. A good fitting gun can make a ton of difference. I still can't shoot a 30-06 worth a darn if it don't fit right, but my well fitted 300win mag feels like a 30-30 to me.
02-07-2004, 10:50 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: 300 win mag
My post was an accolade to J3 and Hale87’s son only and was not intended as encouragement nor discouragement for others not so inclined. In reading this thread, their two posts stood out in stark contrast to the “default settings” of most American hunters so I wanted to acknowledge them and I also wanted to give them the "heads up" to the pending naysayer crowd. Kids that are eager to step into the shoes of men are in short supply and quite refreshing in today’s world; and at the same time it seems like there are to many men trying to go the "other direction" when it involves anything that shoots a cartridge --- those folks, I leave to go their own way.
Again, I am saluting the youngsters with the gumption to “step it up” and leaving those who haven’t spent a dime to have their rifles fitted, or a nickel to hone their shooting/recoil managment technique with some professional instruction, or are fragile, or just plain can’t shoot to "land" where they may. I’ve found there is an endless supply from this latter "school" and I leave it to other nurturing and/or remedial folks to address their difficulties/inabilities.
Matching the tool to the job at hand is always a sound idea and erring to the strong side is a virtue. If one has worked up to easily handling a sledge, then a tack hammer is child’s play –-- the reverse is not necessarily (nor even likely) true. No easier way to turn a 30-06 into the "puppy dog" that it is, than to master something bigger and then "throttle back" --- ah, now it's soooo nice and easy.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
Again, I am saluting the youngsters with the gumption to “step it up” and leaving those who haven’t spent a dime to have their rifles fitted, or a nickel to hone their shooting/recoil managment technique with some professional instruction, or are fragile, or just plain can’t shoot to "land" where they may. I’ve found there is an endless supply from this latter "school" and I leave it to other nurturing and/or remedial folks to address their difficulties/inabilities.
Matching the tool to the job at hand is always a sound idea and erring to the strong side is a virtue. If one has worked up to easily handling a sledge, then a tack hammer is child’s play –-- the reverse is not necessarily (nor even likely) true. No easier way to turn a 30-06 into the "puppy dog" that it is, than to master something bigger and then "throttle back" --- ah, now it's soooo nice and easy.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
02-08-2004, 01:04 AM
#15
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,063
RE: 300 win mag
Why not add a boss system? I know people have mixed fealings, but i love ours. We have a .300 win mag w/ the boss system. I have been able to shoot it since I could reach the trigger, (about the age of 10!). I also have been able to handle the bigger caliber guns and shotguns. I hunted with my 12g. as young as 12.
Good luck with the gun. It is up to the kid. let him shoot it once, and see what he thinks.
Also the one thing to be careful of is the weight of the gun. I know I would have had a hell of a time packing that gun around on the hikes I took when I was younger.
Also what would your son be hunting with the gun? It is a little too big for deer, and about perfect for elk sized animals.
Good luck with the gun. It is up to the kid. let him shoot it once, and see what he thinks.
Also the one thing to be careful of is the weight of the gun. I know I would have had a hell of a time packing that gun around on the hikes I took when I was younger.
Also what would your son be hunting with the gun? It is a little too big for deer, and about perfect for elk sized animals.
02-08-2004, 04:58 AM
#16
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: 300 win mag
Hi EKM,
I agree with you that "we've softened up considerably as of late". (As a Drill Instructor I worked regularly with people "flinching while shooting an M16........Sad but true!) And I certainly don't want to discourage someone that wants to try the bigger guns. (I know I was fascinated with them when I was younger.) I wasn't trying to argue with you about the utility of the bigger guns....I believe in them. And in any instance a "small gun would work....a big will work at least as well....if you can shoot it." I only hoped to point out that I've seen many people insist on trying to shoot them.....and they failed miserably. Because they were afraid of the recoil. (Or they may not have been outright afraid.....but still had a horrible flinch.....which they couldn't control.)
There are many instances that heavy guns are the only reasonable choice for the job. And there are times that they can be used.....but aren't necessary. Either way, as long as you can shoot them, they will work.
I honestly believe that the easiest way to develope the proficiency at using a heavy rifle....is to learn the basic skills with a lighter rifle first. Then move onto a heavier caliber.......and practice with it. I'd much rather see someone start with a rifle that I know they will be able to comfortably shoot. Work on basic markmanship skills from various field shooting positions. And then progress to a heavier caliber. (And the truth of the matter is that most people that "need to ask".......don't have the experience.) But still....there is nothing wrong with going out to "try something new.......just for the experience......and the fun"!
I'm currently preparing to pick up a CZ in probably .375 H&H.......and a SS Guide Gun in .45-70, (which will be used with Garrett and Buffalo Bore loads. So you know I'm not opposed to good mediums and heavies.
I hope you didn't think I was picking an argument with your comments! I only wanted the original poster to know that there is nothing wrong with shooting a smaller gun....until you establish enough skill to make the transition. (That way they will be much less likely to ever develope a ruinous flinch.)
I agree with you that "we've softened up considerably as of late". (As a Drill Instructor I worked regularly with people "flinching while shooting an M16........Sad but true!) And I certainly don't want to discourage someone that wants to try the bigger guns. (I know I was fascinated with them when I was younger.) I wasn't trying to argue with you about the utility of the bigger guns....I believe in them. And in any instance a "small gun would work....a big will work at least as well....if you can shoot it." I only hoped to point out that I've seen many people insist on trying to shoot them.....and they failed miserably. Because they were afraid of the recoil. (Or they may not have been outright afraid.....but still had a horrible flinch.....which they couldn't control.)
There are many instances that heavy guns are the only reasonable choice for the job. And there are times that they can be used.....but aren't necessary. Either way, as long as you can shoot them, they will work.
I honestly believe that the easiest way to develope the proficiency at using a heavy rifle....is to learn the basic skills with a lighter rifle first. Then move onto a heavier caliber.......and practice with it. I'd much rather see someone start with a rifle that I know they will be able to comfortably shoot. Work on basic markmanship skills from various field shooting positions. And then progress to a heavier caliber. (And the truth of the matter is that most people that "need to ask".......don't have the experience.) But still....there is nothing wrong with going out to "try something new.......just for the experience......and the fun"!
I'm currently preparing to pick up a CZ in probably .375 H&H.......and a SS Guide Gun in .45-70, (which will be used with Garrett and Buffalo Bore loads. So you know I'm not opposed to good mediums and heavies.
I hope you didn't think I was picking an argument with your comments! I only wanted the original poster to know that there is nothing wrong with shooting a smaller gun....until you establish enough skill to make the transition. (That way they will be much less likely to ever develope a ruinous flinch.)
02-08-2004, 05:46 AM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 549
RE: 300 win mag
In my opinion recoil is just a tolerance of what a person can handle and still make a tight group. If the guy next to you at the range is saying I've never grouped my magnum that well his either using the wrong load for the gun or he's flinching. The sound of magnum make most people flinch. I shoot a 300 win. theres not alot of recoil there in my rifle. But the first rifle I bought in that caliber was a remington 700 adl synthetic. I bought it at a banquet one night and holy cow that thing kicked like a mule. Different gun different kind of backwards kick.
As far as kids shooting magnums it would be the individual kid. If after time they still can't group their shots. Then maybe the parent will be wise enough to try something different. Using a percussion or a flintlock muzzleloader teaches the best shooting habits there is. If you can hold your shot for the delay and manage good groups you have proper shooting composure and tolerance. It boils down to the individual child. Notice the word "child". Your kid is not a pu88y if he can't handle it just yet. Let your children make the choice on what fits them. Don't push it on them, we need all the future hunters and pro-gun people we can get in the future.
As far as kids shooting magnums it would be the individual kid. If after time they still can't group their shots. Then maybe the parent will be wise enough to try something different. Using a percussion or a flintlock muzzleloader teaches the best shooting habits there is. If you can hold your shot for the delay and manage good groups you have proper shooting composure and tolerance. It boils down to the individual child. Notice the word "child". Your kid is not a pu88y if he can't handle it just yet. Let your children make the choice on what fits them. Don't push it on them, we need all the future hunters and pro-gun people we can get in the future.
02-08-2004, 06:47 AM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: 300 win mag
AK,
Not to worry, no argument taken nor offered, just being focused in my response. People post questions for all sorts of reasons varying from valid inquiry to simply looking to liven the forum up a bit.
jdeer posted his 11 words (not even a question really) with no indication as to the experience to date of the 14 year old in question nor has he jumped back into the thread to add or clarify as the thread unfolds, thus leaving folks to continue to "assume and guess" as to this kid's background and experience and current profficiency with any firearm whatsoever. One could "chase ones tail" ad nauseum and reach no clear conclusion for ones trouble with that kind of a set up.
That is why I limited my post to J3 and Hale87 who appear to be "real" and "players" to boot. For folks whom recoil is a problem, I wish you well with your endeavors.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
Not to worry, no argument taken nor offered, just being focused in my response. People post questions for all sorts of reasons varying from valid inquiry to simply looking to liven the forum up a bit.
jdeer posted his 11 words (not even a question really) with no indication as to the experience to date of the 14 year old in question nor has he jumped back into the thread to add or clarify as the thread unfolds, thus leaving folks to continue to "assume and guess" as to this kid's background and experience and current profficiency with any firearm whatsoever. One could "chase ones tail" ad nauseum and reach no clear conclusion for ones trouble with that kind of a set up.
That is why I limited my post to J3 and Hale87 who appear to be "real" and "players" to boot. For folks whom recoil is a problem, I wish you well with your endeavors.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
02-08-2004, 11:58 AM
#19
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: 300 win mag
Hi EKM,
Thankfully it's been years (decades actually) since my DI days! Other than my wife, who will occassionally have to "revisit the basics" with a rimfire or light centerfire......I haven't had to worry about solving other's problems with flinching. And for that....I am thankful! (And my wife will not to admit to flinching when asked. So several times over the years when I've suspected and or seen a problem......I've handed her a rifle that I've slipped an empty in the chambder. There's nothing like ending that discussion when the rifle "moves in anticipated recoil".....on the empty click of the firing pin. And yes.....she usually gives me "the look" when I do that to her. But she no longer argues with me about "the flinch". And back to a lighter recoiling rifle.....until she settles down again.)
But I certainly didn't want you to think I was taking exception with anything you had said. I was only pointing it out for any inexperienced readers of the thread.
Dave
P.S. And I never say anything to another person at a range......(even hesitant if asked)! Most people do NOT really want to know the truth.....and you usually end up with "a cold stare" for your trouble if you offer advice even when requested. So I do my best to only try assisting anyone that has accompanied me....(neices, nephews, etc.). Unless I observe someone doing something unsafe where others are endangered. That is the only time I will say something that hasn't been solicited! But I do understand your congratulating the young men that weren't too timid to experiment with larger firearms.
Thankfully it's been years (decades actually) since my DI days! Other than my wife, who will occassionally have to "revisit the basics" with a rimfire or light centerfire......I haven't had to worry about solving other's problems with flinching. And for that....I am thankful! (And my wife will not to admit to flinching when asked. So several times over the years when I've suspected and or seen a problem......I've handed her a rifle that I've slipped an empty in the chambder. There's nothing like ending that discussion when the rifle "moves in anticipated recoil".....on the empty click of the firing pin. And yes.....she usually gives me "the look" when I do that to her. But she no longer argues with me about "the flinch". And back to a lighter recoiling rifle.....until she settles down again.)
But I certainly didn't want you to think I was taking exception with anything you had said. I was only pointing it out for any inexperienced readers of the thread.
Dave
P.S. And I never say anything to another person at a range......(even hesitant if asked)! Most people do NOT really want to know the truth.....and you usually end up with "a cold stare" for your trouble if you offer advice even when requested. So I do my best to only try assisting anyone that has accompanied me....(neices, nephews, etc.). Unless I observe someone doing something unsafe where others are endangered. That is the only time I will say something that hasn't been solicited! But I do understand your congratulating the young men that weren't too timid to experiment with larger firearms.
02-08-2004, 02:56 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: 300 win mag
AK,
The "random empty chamber" drill is a favorite of my boys and I any time we go to the range --- we use it especially right in the beginning just to get things off to a good start BEFORE any problems arise. The penalty of getting caught in a "dry fire" flinch is so embarrassing, and the associated harassment so spirited that we all avoid the flinch at all costs. At any time during a range session (regardless of cartridge) you will hear us, "Here, let me load that for you!"
Another technique we do that may be of interest is we limit the amount of time allowed to take a shot -- if you take too long (a seven count from safety off & preferrably fired by "five"), then you have to break your pose, put it back on safe, look up and start over. The longer you stare through the scope of a rifle chambered in a frisky cartridge, the harder it will jab you. Thinking too much is not productive at that juncture.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM
The "random empty chamber" drill is a favorite of my boys and I any time we go to the range --- we use it especially right in the beginning just to get things off to a good start BEFORE any problems arise. The penalty of getting caught in a "dry fire" flinch is so embarrassing, and the associated harassment so spirited that we all avoid the flinch at all costs. At any time during a range session (regardless of cartridge) you will hear us, "Here, let me load that for you!"
Another technique we do that may be of interest is we limit the amount of time allowed to take a shot -- if you take too long (a seven count from safety off & preferrably fired by "five"), then you have to break your pose, put it back on safe, look up and start over. The longer you stare through the scope of a rifle chambered in a frisky cartridge, the harder it will jab you. Thinking too much is not productive at that juncture.
Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM