elknut1

Ramboman

BJ's a big boy and take care of himself. But I for one cannot let such a low and cowardly remark slide by. Who the heck do you think you are to insinuate that those of us who enjoy hunting sites as this are a bunch of lowly wannabe hunters, otherwise why would we belong to such sites. I'm not going to stoop to your level and combat you with words. You might as well have mentioned all our names by a comment like that.

I feel because there's controversy in the way YOU look at this matter that all are wrong in their thinking if it opposes yours. Well, GROW UP! BJ you can take it from here!!!!! elknut1

rambopacker

Lowly Wanabe hunters? Where did that come from? Was it the muleskinner or long hair thing. I'm an avid hunter who is using this site too(apparently more than I should be) and I packed 4 mules into the backcountry this summer. Lighten up a bit as it was just humor. The other day I ran a bunch of those Hippie types(alternative life style people in case my boss is reading) off the Forest. They live out on the Forest and apparently were out in this particular spot for 2 months before I found them. That's where that came from and so they probably could out last me too. And the muleskinner remark comes from knowing some outfitters and packers who I just couldn't picture sitting at the computer. I guess I didn't appreciate the hippie and horse whisperer comments, horse whisperers are better than folks who use two-by-fours. So I stick by my remarks humurous or not and I appreciate others oppinion more than you know. Elknut, your not a smokejumper are you? I've known some out of McCall Idaho. Good guys to be stuck on a fire with. Nice country too, that's where I got my cross-cut saw training.

I'll fall back on the motto I've developed since becoming a Federal employee"If everybody is equally pissed at me I must be doing a good job".

Hey Coastie, thanks, and as far as cross-cuts vs. chainsaws, I use chainsaws when I'm outside of the Wilderness because I try to be as efficient as possible with your tax dollars. Chainsaws are not allowed in the Wilderness so I can't there. Come out and volunteer for me sometime and you'll find most of my crews can push a misery whip all day and clear quite a few trees and they love it. I just don't think adding chainsaws to the Wilderness is worth a few extra miles at the end of the year. A lot of people who pay taxes and use the Wilderness want to keep it that way. Your right I don't have all the answers and guess that's why I keep asking questions. I know it's contradictive all of this. Whether it's chainsaw crews outside the Wilderness or cross-cut saws in, we don't have enough funds to do a proper job and I Don't want to loose the Wilderness experience because of the almighty dollar. Oh well!

sawbill

Sounds like 'wilderness' is a relative term. I have guys from the Detroit area who hunt with me and consider where I take them to be wilderness. As far as I'm concerned its not even close to getting out in the back 40. Don't forget that mosts trails and portage routes existed long before your 'wilderness' parks were ever designated so I don't see it as opening new country, but maintaining the access that was already there for a couple of centuries. How you do this and what is acceptable is what this post was originally about--I think! I firmly believe that its fair to treat everyone equally as their taxes are going to support your program. This means the old fart who can barely hobble around as well as the young buck who wants the real bushwhacking experience. That old character has every right to enjoy a wilderness experience, maybe for the last time, that he once knew when he was a younger man. His taxes say that he has that right. And just maybe we owe it to that man to be able to do it in relative safety. If you prefer to do your work with a bucksaw thats OK. I still think its okay to use a chainaxe because even in Northern Ontario I don't believe there really exists 'Wilderness' anymore.
And BJ, I was the clod who made less than polite comments about your writing style. Please drop the Mountain Man persona and talk to us so we can more easily understand what you're saying. It would give your comments so much more credibility. You ain't really the hayseed you're trying to make out to be.

rambopacker

Hey Sawbill, I'd like to hunt your country sometime, Wilderness or not. I leaned the other way on the chainsaw vs. crosscut issue and you know what? I guess I was persuaded by passionate Wilderness lovers. Again, I had to draw the line somewhere in order to protect the Wilderness, true or not it's all we got. There are plenty of Wilderness Managers who are dealing with this dilema and are leaning the other way. I suppose if your out in the Wilderness and trying to hunt elk and someone starts a chainsaw nearby that wouldn't bother some but I'll stick with the folks who prefer otherwise. Out of 3 districts 2/3rds are not Wilderness trails and we cleared just as many miles in the Wilderness with x-cut saws as out. People who come to work in the Wilderness are usually proud of keeping a traditional tool going and I'm always turning folks away.

I know smokejumpers who don't mind jumping out of a plane with a x-cut too. We send a lot of them to the smokejumpers in the off season to sharpen as they are experts. Someone said earlier that there have been fatalities dut to firefighters having to use x-cuts but I know of none. When your under a tree with a chainsaw you can't hear the sounds of a cracking tree.

Yeh Sawbill, you picked up on poor PJ who I was just poking at a little cause he seemed to like poking at everyone else. Take it easy.

Coastie

rambopacker, I don't know if the fatalities were due to the crosscut over chainsaw thing or not, but the wilderness policies of the USFS were questioned quite a bit during the fire season a couple of years ago in Montana where those folks got killed. As for the amount of work that can be done with a crosscut, that is pretty undeniable, the great white pine forests of Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota can attest to that. As far as the safety issue though, most of the old time lumber jacks I knew as a kid, those that had taken part in that mighty endeavor, were known as "Lefty" "One Arm Bill" or "Stubby" so I guess if you screw up with an axe or a crosscut, the result can be just as devastating.
If I were 30 years younger, I might take you up on the offer of joining one of your crews but that is not to be.

rambopacker

I love my job. It wouldn't be the same without the controversies. We definately had a bad couple of seasons with the casualties. Safety First. Maybe we'll cross paths out on one of those trails sometime.