Lion hunt video....must see!!
01-06-2004, 03:05 PM
#31
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harford Co. Maryland
Posts: 1,574
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
akbound,
If the lion was a nuisance in some type of game park and had to be killed, that's just fine. As a matter of fact, it SHOULD have been killed. If it was killed in the wild I'd have no real problem with that either. As one of those "brave" deer hunters, I can speak for myself when I say that the harvesting of a game animal is only respectable in my eyes, if the animal knows what it is up against. What kind of game animal would it be if you could walk up to it, stare it in the face, and shoot it? That takes no brains, no game plan, and no b@lls as far as I'm concerned.
I don't hunt deer to be brave. Do you?
If the lion was a nuisance in some type of game park and had to be killed, that's just fine. As a matter of fact, it SHOULD have been killed. If it was killed in the wild I'd have no real problem with that either. As one of those "brave" deer hunters, I can speak for myself when I say that the harvesting of a game animal is only respectable in my eyes, if the animal knows what it is up against. What kind of game animal would it be if you could walk up to it, stare it in the face, and shoot it? That takes no brains, no game plan, and no b@lls as far as I'm concerned.
I don't hunt deer to be brave. Do you?
01-06-2004, 05:16 PM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
First two lines I thought were right on beam and then you confused the h*** out of me. Beyond that do you really mean what you literally said? If not please help me out….
So its been quiet all year, the sun is about to come up in the east on the opening day of rifle deer season and the ”wrath of mankind” is about to fall upon the local deer population after a peaceful spring, summer, and autumn, and….
You have stalked in quietly and positioned yourself perfectly on eight head of deer including a trophy buck in a small clearing just as the legal shooting hours requirement is met, and….
What are you going to do?
Fire a warning shot and announce your location and your intentions so “….the animal knows what it is up against….”? That would be very noble and quite sporting of you, but I doubt if either of us would give that trophy buck that kind of quarter. If fact, "lowering the boom" on them so they don’t even know what hit them is generally considered the essence of “doing it right”.
In many cases that describes a “top of the food chain” predator that has little or no fear of man --- especially if it is guarding a kill or defending its territory or harem as in “I’m king of this hill, you are in my turf, beat it or you will reckon with me!”
So if the same scenario unfolded again and you were in charge of the opportunity, then upon your arrival you would drive up right up, jump right out of the truck with rifle in hand, stride right into the enclosure without a moment’s hesitation (requires no brains), take the lion where ever and however you found him (requires no plan), dispatch him cleanly with no glitches, suffer no testicular shrinkage in the process (requires no b@lls), and declare to all present there was “no anything” to it? Really?
The fireside computer with the dangerous game being thousands of miles and an ocean away perhaps tends to embolden one a bit, as the moment of “testing” may never occur in an entire lifetime (unless one seeks it out).
Seems like most of us American "big game" hunters (antelope/deer/elk/etc.) must be pretty much “weenies” by African standards. They say if you hunt there you will be changed forever, not hard to see why!
EKM
….the harvesting of a game animal is only respectable in my eyes, if the animal knows what it is up against.
You have stalked in quietly and positioned yourself perfectly on eight head of deer including a trophy buck in a small clearing just as the legal shooting hours requirement is met, and….
What are you going to do?
Fire a warning shot and announce your location and your intentions so “….the animal knows what it is up against….”? That would be very noble and quite sporting of you, but I doubt if either of us would give that trophy buck that kind of quarter. If fact, "lowering the boom" on them so they don’t even know what hit them is generally considered the essence of “doing it right”.
What kind of game animal would it be if you could walk up to it, stare it in the face, and shoot it?
That takes no brains, no game plan, and no b@lls as far as I'm concerned.
The fireside computer with the dangerous game being thousands of miles and an ocean away perhaps tends to embolden one a bit, as the moment of “testing” may never occur in an entire lifetime (unless one seeks it out).
Seems like most of us American "big game" hunters (antelope/deer/elk/etc.) must be pretty much “weenies” by African standards. They say if you hunt there you will be changed forever, not hard to see why!
EKM
01-06-2004, 06:26 PM
#33
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harford Co. Maryland
Posts: 1,574
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
ELKampMaster, I didn't mean to confuse you and I'm sorry if you missed my point. To be quite honest, I missed your point too...
Say what you will about the "hunt" that is captured on that video. As far as I'm concerned, that's not hunting, nor is it brave. But hey, whatever shucks your corn.
And yes, I always fire three warning shots at any deer before I lower the crosshairs into their vitals [:-]. It's only right, isn't it?
They say if you hunt there you will be changed forever, not hard to see why!
And yes, I always fire three warning shots at any deer before I lower the crosshairs into their vitals [:-]. It's only right, isn't it?
01-06-2004, 08:18 PM
#35
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harford Co. Maryland
Posts: 1,574
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
Nice Spin. So what did you mean?
01-06-2004, 10:07 PM
#36
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
That is very straight forward.
The tape clip covers one of the not so "noble" aspects of animal husbandry (farming, etc.) Not all decisions or actions made "down on the farm or in a park" are enjoyable -- this was one of them. Similarly, however, IF you eat any processed meat at all, THEN you DO directly endorse and support the non-honorable killing of animals that have "no reason to fear humans" and find themselves in a lethal "no escape environment" via the slaughter house. There is a word for those kind of animals, they are called beef and pork.
I am certain that throughout this thread, I have not called this a hunt -- rather a task that had to be taken care of by the operators and involved risk. The fact it was not a "hunt" DOES make it less than "noble"; however, it does NOT render it un-notable.
They could have simply shot him from the outside of the enclosure through the fence! Those who stepped inside that enclosure with the lion required way more cajones than will be accumulated in all ones years of hunting deer, who have no alternative but to run or hide. No, they decided to enter the enclosure --- and it nearly cost one of them his life in "bite you back" combat. Nothing of that sort will occur deer hunting; however, it DOES tend to make deer hunting more enjoyable and comfortable for most folks.
-----------------------------------
Still, one unaddressed detail, though.....
How are you going to get the game animal you stalk to know what they are up against? Especially if that is a requisite to being a "respectable" hunter. I am unaware of any telepathic "hunter to game" communications.
EKM
The tape clip covers one of the not so "noble" aspects of animal husbandry (farming, etc.) Not all decisions or actions made "down on the farm or in a park" are enjoyable -- this was one of them. Similarly, however, IF you eat any processed meat at all, THEN you DO directly endorse and support the non-honorable killing of animals that have "no reason to fear humans" and find themselves in a lethal "no escape environment" via the slaughter house. There is a word for those kind of animals, they are called beef and pork.
I am certain that throughout this thread, I have not called this a hunt -- rather a task that had to be taken care of by the operators and involved risk. The fact it was not a "hunt" DOES make it less than "noble"; however, it does NOT render it un-notable.
They could have simply shot him from the outside of the enclosure through the fence! Those who stepped inside that enclosure with the lion required way more cajones than will be accumulated in all ones years of hunting deer, who have no alternative but to run or hide. No, they decided to enter the enclosure --- and it nearly cost one of them his life in "bite you back" combat. Nothing of that sort will occur deer hunting; however, it DOES tend to make deer hunting more enjoyable and comfortable for most folks.
-----------------------------------
Still, one unaddressed detail, though.....
….the harvesting of a game animal is only respectable in my eyes, if the animal knows what it is up against.
EKM
01-07-2004, 06:32 AM
#37
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
Hi JimboHunter1,
Explain to me please.....the part of "your game plan" that includes "clueing in" the deer you're about to "execute" it. Or do you stalk barefooted up to it...."on its terms".....and stab it with a stick? Are you serious....or what?
Let me put forth what I envision is closer to the truth. You own a firearm, (though maybe a bow with "X" number of mechanical contrivances, aluminum or carbon fiber shafts, and "replacable razor insert heads), either rifle, shotgun, or handgun.....any of which can kill a deer to perhaps 75 yards on the "short side" to perhaps over 300 yards on the "long side". So explain to me again....exactly where this "sport" occurs.
You are attempting the same convoluted logic applied by anti-hunters....you can't have it both ways. Truth of the matter is that for the vast majority of people on either this site.....or in this country....we don't simply "hunt to eat". It would be cheaper in the long run to stock your freezer with "air hammer harvasted" meat....at the local grocery store. I know of very few family's that live in an area that other than as supplemental table fare could they hope to feed their families...without exceeding "bag limits" and violating game laws.
So let's cut to the chase on this one. It doesn't "measure up" to your standard of "sport" because the lion wasn't trying to "sneek" by your stand unnoticed....when you launched a high power rifle bullet through him. And this term "free range" gets a lot of word play on this site. The truth of the matter is that most hunters (in at least the Eastern part of this country) do thier hunting on relatively small patches of private property, game lands, or very small wood - farm lots intersperced among highways, homes, schools, etc. So how "free ranging" is it. Unless you've hunted in true wilderness....that argument is corrupt as well.
I don't hunt to eat....oooohhhhh sacrilege......and fact that I do eat most of what I harvast...is not "why" I hunt. I hunt to fulfil an urge that is as ancient as mankind himself. (Notice the teeth....they're not all for grinding.) I hunt to have assumed personal responsibility for my participation in the food chain. Which also includes predator to prey.....and predator to predator...as an assertion of dominance. And you can "milk it over" with all the words in the world...but that is the essence of hunting. A nature walk is only a nature walk. A hunt entails the willingness to accept what you are by nature, to participate in it.....and contrary to Alan Alda or Phil Donahue...I am not ashamed of what I was born to be! I am a predator in nature's scheme...(for all you nature freaks out there)....and to be less than that would by very nature....be unnatural!
That lion....regardless of the circumstances.....had more opportunity to fight back then any deer (or other animal I'd guess) you have ever "harvasted"....(I like that word....harvasted.....it is such a pleasant way to say killed!). And by your very nature.....name something that you have eaten in this lifetime that wasn't once alive and had to die to nourish your continued existence. I always thought the expression that "met him face to face....meant more....not less"! But to some, I suppose, "back shooting" that unsuspecting buck...is so much more sporting....because he was "free" on that 120 acre plot?!?
No...I don't hunt deer to be brave. I hunt deer to acknowledge my participation in nature....and "my nature". I don't hunt grizzly bear to be brave either....but if you're a coward it will show rather quickly!
Please, don't treat me like an illiterate fool. Very, very, few Americans hunt for subsistence....they hunt for the thrill of the hunt. The fact that you eat the dear later does nothing to mitigate that. For most, they never amortize the cost of equipment, license, missed work, or travel. It would be less expensive to buy your meat from the "purveyors of the slaughter house" and just have had someone do your killing for you! Then you could "close your eyes to the facts" pretend to "wash your hands entirely" of the blood. And feel even more "sporting"!
It is no wonder this society is in a state of confusion!
Explain to me please.....the part of "your game plan" that includes "clueing in" the deer you're about to "execute" it. Or do you stalk barefooted up to it...."on its terms".....and stab it with a stick? Are you serious....or what?
Let me put forth what I envision is closer to the truth. You own a firearm, (though maybe a bow with "X" number of mechanical contrivances, aluminum or carbon fiber shafts, and "replacable razor insert heads), either rifle, shotgun, or handgun.....any of which can kill a deer to perhaps 75 yards on the "short side" to perhaps over 300 yards on the "long side". So explain to me again....exactly where this "sport" occurs.
You are attempting the same convoluted logic applied by anti-hunters....you can't have it both ways. Truth of the matter is that for the vast majority of people on either this site.....or in this country....we don't simply "hunt to eat". It would be cheaper in the long run to stock your freezer with "air hammer harvasted" meat....at the local grocery store. I know of very few family's that live in an area that other than as supplemental table fare could they hope to feed their families...without exceeding "bag limits" and violating game laws.
So let's cut to the chase on this one. It doesn't "measure up" to your standard of "sport" because the lion wasn't trying to "sneek" by your stand unnoticed....when you launched a high power rifle bullet through him. And this term "free range" gets a lot of word play on this site. The truth of the matter is that most hunters (in at least the Eastern part of this country) do thier hunting on relatively small patches of private property, game lands, or very small wood - farm lots intersperced among highways, homes, schools, etc. So how "free ranging" is it. Unless you've hunted in true wilderness....that argument is corrupt as well.
I don't hunt to eat....oooohhhhh sacrilege......and fact that I do eat most of what I harvast...is not "why" I hunt. I hunt to fulfil an urge that is as ancient as mankind himself. (Notice the teeth....they're not all for grinding.) I hunt to have assumed personal responsibility for my participation in the food chain. Which also includes predator to prey.....and predator to predator...as an assertion of dominance. And you can "milk it over" with all the words in the world...but that is the essence of hunting. A nature walk is only a nature walk. A hunt entails the willingness to accept what you are by nature, to participate in it.....and contrary to Alan Alda or Phil Donahue...I am not ashamed of what I was born to be! I am a predator in nature's scheme...(for all you nature freaks out there)....and to be less than that would by very nature....be unnatural!
That lion....regardless of the circumstances.....had more opportunity to fight back then any deer (or other animal I'd guess) you have ever "harvasted"....(I like that word....harvasted.....it is such a pleasant way to say killed!). And by your very nature.....name something that you have eaten in this lifetime that wasn't once alive and had to die to nourish your continued existence. I always thought the expression that "met him face to face....meant more....not less"! But to some, I suppose, "back shooting" that unsuspecting buck...is so much more sporting....because he was "free" on that 120 acre plot?!?
No...I don't hunt deer to be brave. I hunt deer to acknowledge my participation in nature....and "my nature". I don't hunt grizzly bear to be brave either....but if you're a coward it will show rather quickly!
Please, don't treat me like an illiterate fool. Very, very, few Americans hunt for subsistence....they hunt for the thrill of the hunt. The fact that you eat the dear later does nothing to mitigate that. For most, they never amortize the cost of equipment, license, missed work, or travel. It would be less expensive to buy your meat from the "purveyors of the slaughter house" and just have had someone do your killing for you! Then you could "close your eyes to the facts" pretend to "wash your hands entirely" of the blood. And feel even more "sporting"!
It is no wonder this society is in a state of confusion!
01-07-2004, 07:24 AM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Harford Co. Maryland
Posts: 1,574
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
Please, don't treat me like an illiterate fool.
the harvesting of a game animal is only respectable in my eyes, if the animal knows what it is up against.
Thanks for the fun, now I'm moving on...
01-07-2004, 09:26 AM
#40
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Lion hunt video....must see!!
patrkyhntr,
If you watch the clip you'll notice a power line and then 10' or so poles (posts?) interspersed along the right hand side and in the back ground -- far from being "caged" but apparently not an "in-the-wild lion hunt". The not-in-the-wild status was also "confirmed" over at accuratereloading.com.
That does not put it in the same "category" as your in-the-wild point blank cape buffalo charge where you put him down and he almost slid to your feet.
That said, I would rank it above deer or elk hunting for "pucker factor" involved and for "testicular fortitude" required to do it.
BTW, as I re-watch that clip, I can see that the little PH guy "saved the day" right at the last second before the lion sprung and was quick with his follow up shot as soon as it was clear to shoot -- seemed like a fairly cool headed character.
EKM
If you watch the clip you'll notice a power line and then 10' or so poles (posts?) interspersed along the right hand side and in the back ground -- far from being "caged" but apparently not an "in-the-wild lion hunt". The not-in-the-wild status was also "confirmed" over at accuratereloading.com.
That does not put it in the same "category" as your in-the-wild point blank cape buffalo charge where you put him down and he almost slid to your feet.
That said, I would rank it above deer or elk hunting for "pucker factor" involved and for "testicular fortitude" required to do it.
BTW, as I re-watch that clip, I can see that the little PH guy "saved the day" right at the last second before the lion sprung and was quick with his follow up shot as soon as it was clear to shoot -- seemed like a fairly cool headed character.
EKM