ELKampMaster

At What Price Comes " Glory" ?

Seriously, I need some help here, this has puzzled me over the last few years, and I must be doing something wrong, how do you communicate “At What Price Comes Glory?”

By " glory" I mean the good parts of a " away from home" /remote big game hunt: beautiful scenery, connecting with nature, getting in touch with yourself, associating with your fellow hunters, the hunt and the kill (if you are lucky), and for some the bragging rights that go with the kill. " Glory" is the EASY PART to embrace whether it' s before, during, or after an “away from home" /remote big game hunt.

Regrettably “glory” (whether you got your game or not) comes at a price. For most of us, who do “away from home”/remote big game hunting, we have implicitly agreed to “pay a given price”. By " price" I mean: the money (the most specific), the time, the work, the responsibility, the risk, and the mental and physical suffering and discomfort (a lot can " fit" into those last two) and perhaps some others that I may have missed. This means the " price" can be a lot HIGHER than many folks think it is until the realization to the contrary catches up with them.

I’ve observed that of the folks I’ve invited elk hunting (from new hunters, to hunters with some experience in their local deer patch, to some that have supposedly hunted elk before):
- - Some are willing to pay the " price."
- - Some aren’t.
- - Some don’t even know that there is a " price" beyond money (tags, gas, expenses, etc.)
- - Some acknowledge there is a multi-faceted " price" , but don’t grasp what all it entails until its " showtime" and then find the " price" too high.

In spite of what I thought were my best efforts to communicate “the price” to some of the prospective hunters for my group (camp expense spread sheet, written problems and solutions/rules, video of the set up, descriptions of the camp, the weather, etc) I’ve had a few hunters that have " pierced my defenses" arrived and the scene and then found the work, the exertion, the pace, the distances, and the mental toughness required (all elements of " price" ) to be more than they can handle and at that point it is way too late in the game --- a bad deal for everyone concerned.

SOOOOO,

(1) What is it in today’s society, that causes people to not grasp the real " price" involved for this kind of “away from home”/remote big game hunting adventure?”

(2) HOW, do YOU communicate to folks what “the price” of this kind of hunt is going to involve?

(3) HOW do YOU select your new camp/hunting members to get folks with " The Right Stuff?"

Outfitters must run into the “lack of mental toughness problem” all the time. Even though, they lift a lot of the burdens from their clients, I don’t think they have much choice in choosing them – a paying client is a paying client. Even with an outfitter, there are some burdens the client just has to carry on their own (weather/fatigue/soreness). [Does the guide lose his tip if he says, " Boys, you need to cowboy up, .... damn it! I suppose so, ouch!]

Maybe I’ll get an earful for asking --- If So, Then Let Me Have It! I' d appreciate any input from your actual experiences and observations regarding " away from home" /remote big game hunting regarding:

1, 2, and 3 above.... thanks.

Never Undergunned, But Sometimes Bewildered In Colorado,
EKM

stubblejumper

Good hunting partners are difficult to find.If they don' t want to do their share to make our trip successful ,I find a new partner as it is simply too difficult to change someones work ethics or values.I have been fortunate lately in that I have found two new hunters that are so excited about hunting that they will gladly do their share and more.If this keeps up I hope to have two long term hunting partners.

txhunter58

It is tough. Your " lack of mental toughness" comment pretty much sums it all up. Bottom line is that I haven' t been able to ever convey the real experience to anyone who hasn' t done it yet. They just don' t have a clue until they have been put through their paces. One example: most hunters would think it is great to take horses hunting, but few that haven' t done it know what that takes (Pasture all year long, truck, trailer, tack feed, vet certs,.....) If they just show up and you have the horses, they haven' t a clue.

You just won' t know until they are put in that situation. I don' t think there is any other way to know, unless you know that they have hiked/camped in the mountains other than hunting. Then, at least they have a clue.

Luckily, my younger brother is usually my hunting partner, and he has always paid the price. This year he helped me backpack my timberline buck out over 5 miles on our backs over streams and downed trees!

trapper T

I think part of it is society today, kids and adults don' t want to do anything that involves the back muscles, everything is way too easy to get and they feel the world owes them something. I' m sure that mentallity winds it' s way into hunting, and frankly most these TV shows don' t help. The hunter goes out in the feild sees 10 to 15 Bulls/Bucks,decides on the one he wants, and blamo gets a perfect broadside 25 yd shot everytime? They portray it as easy and so everyone else thinks along those lines. As far as outfitters, I' m sure they get a bunch af guys who think a guided hunt is a pampered vaction to get wined and dined w/out having to raise a finger. My 2 cents. My self I' d feel so out of place if I was catered to like that ,sitting around and watchin others work isnt' t the way I operate, and as far as the " price" there isn' t anything I' d do to get the feeling of tagging an Elk. There is no better drug than a successful Elk hunt[8D]

As for me the hardest part to pay is the money side of it. But that' s probably pretty common here in this web site?

BeaverJack

I toy with sellin' off the stock ever year now. Now my place is for sale an' the ol' lady wants to travel some. Hard to do with critters. Don' t think I' d elk hunt at all ' thout stock. Don' t think I' d enjoy livin' at the base of the mountings if I had to walk up switches jus' to git away from the stink of humanity. Sure would save money though. Good pasture land is too high for a poor slob to afford anymore. Maybe I' ll hang on one more year, then pack it all up an' head somewhars where they don' t know what a snowplow or horseshoe looks like.

Cyrus

I agree with Trapper.

It' s todays society. We live in an urbanized, pampered, technology driven world. Bascially people today have an easy way of do pretty much everything and don' t have to physically work to do much. Why do you think we have so many overweight people? Hell, look how many people pay someone to mow there lawn or shovel their walk. An enterprising young kid can make a fortune with a lawn mower and a shovel if he wants to do a little work.
I used to work with a woman that was marrried to a doctor. Neither one of them wanted to mow their lawn or shovel there driveway in the winter. I made a fortune off them. A couple hours here and there after work got me an extra couple hundred dollars a month. I was charging them a bundle but they didn' t care.

This mentality has gone right into hunting. Look at how the arrival of ATV' s has changed the hunting world. I hate ATV' s you get guys ripping around on them all over the place in areas that previously very few peole would go because it was far back off the beaten path.

Outfitters and guides put up with the same kind of crap all the time. My buddy guides for a waterfowling outfit and he has plenty of stories about guys that show up and want to be catered to the whole time and don' t lift a finger to do anything. Even to transfer their own gun from the truck to the boat. They get out of the truck and go sit in the boat while he does everything including carry the guys own personal bag and gun and sit there on their duffs in their expensive waders while he tries to pull the boat and all it' s contents over a mud bar. And yes, he pretty much has to tough it out and not say anything.
But, that said he also tells me of guys that help row on windy days, haul decoy bags, pull boats over mud flats, and get right into the hunt.

To me the hunt is everything involved. The camp set up all the work involved with general camp life is all part of it and to sit around and not partake in it is missing the true experience.
If you have guys in camp that don' t help and just show up for the hunt and that' s it. Get rid of them. Don' t ask them back.
As Stubblejumper said it' s hard to find guys that have the same work ethics and expectations from a hunt as you do. It' s pretty much trial and error until you find them, but then your set for a great camp.
It sounds like you are doing all you can to prepare people. If you are showing them video and telling them everything, that' s about all you can do. They just don' t seem to be listening or paying attention and that sounds like the wrong kind of people. You just need to find the right guys.

Most of the guys I hunt with I' ve know since we were kids and we grew up hunting the same why with the same expectations. Being long time friends also gives you free range to tell some to get off his butt and do something without offending.
Anytime we' ve taken anyone new, we' ve started with shorter closer to home hunts to get the fel for what a guy is like.

Well, that' s my two cents worth anyway.
Sorry, it' s a little long winded.

Hale87

This is always a very difficult situation. My best friend is one of the hardest working people I know, but it doesn' t transfer to hunting. He wants to hunt all the time, but he doesn' t want to hunt " hard" like I do. He looks at hunting as a vacation, and I look at it as a challenge. Matter of fact I' m having the same problem with my 13 year old. He doesn' t want to climb to the top of the ridge with me on the first day of rifle here in PA. He wants to go " low" and utilize one of our " doe" stands with heat. His problem is the fact that he sees his Grandmother using her' s and doesn' t want to make the sacrifice. Well,,,,,,,,,,, doesn' t this put me in a bind. What should I do? Go to the top, and miss spending the day with him, or give in and go hang with all the " low landers" ? Personally I can' t stand it down there on the first day of the season. I' ve seen maybe one other person on top in twenty years and that' s why I love it up there.
When we were hunting elk in Colorado we ran into the same thing. There were a couple of parties camped at the top of the trail head. Both parties told us that they weren' t going down in that bottom to kill an elk. We packed two up that mile and a half long climb. It did cut our hunt short by a few days, but I had no regrets. We gave it our all and when we couldn' t go any longer we gave in! It does drive a wedge in a relationship though. My bubby is always poking fun at me for being too intense, and I' m constantly disgusted with his lack of effort. Bottom line is, we agree to disagree, but I wouldn' t want to put up with it much while elk hunting.

BeaverJack

My son' s the same. Wants to go hunting, but won' t put much of an effort forth. I figure its his mama' s genes coming out. Hard to do things together when he deems me too intense or hard core. Some things just don' t come easy. I don' t know why he never learned that. I gave him plenty of chores growing up. But he was only with me on weekends. I don' t think his mama even made him clean his room. Anyway, I sure wish we could hunt together more often, and it was real hunting when we do. But if wishes were horses beggars would ride. That and two bucks will buy a cup of coffee. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

txhunter58

I have to add something negative about computer games at this point. I have played a hunting game on the computer a time or two, but I know kids that play them a lot. Unfortunately very little of a computer hunt translates into a real hunt, especially in the mountains.

I think the longest I had to hunt on a game before " bagging" game was 8-10 minutes. No wonder a kid doesn' t want to sit for hours waiting. It certainly doesn' t tranlate well as to the price they will have to hunt to really hunt.

BigBore1895

Man this topic is tough for me, because this is my generation that are the lazy ingrates. I am so ashamed to be associated with most people my age now. My dad taught me that the harder you work the luckier you get. That' s why I can' t stand college, because there are too many pretty boys who think that the world owes them everything. I drive down from school about three to four times a week, 40 minutes each way to help my dad work, and I wouldn' t trade those days at work with my dad for anything. And as far as hunting and shooting, I hunt as hard as any of them. I do not have much respect for people who do not know how to get their hands dirty, and it is killing our country. How are we any different from other countries if we are not doing the American thing, working hard, hunting hard, doing everything that way. Too many people now are content with their Starbucks and the New York Times. I never owned a Nintendo or anything, and I don' t regret it a bit. All that time I spent in the woods and on a bike, wrecking and getting dirty, makes you tough. Work makes you tough. One of the best feelings I get during the summer is going out with my friends at night after I pull a twelve hour day, and talking about how they work sorting books at the library from 9-12. Work is hard, but it is also honest. Same for hunting. I am not into sitting around and waiting for three hours and then heading in. Hunting is tough, one of the toughest sports around, and it is best that way.