Oldtimr

Alsatian, when these people go on TV and preform in hunting and fishing shows they may be the only hunters and fishermen many people ever see doing what we do. They have an obligation to to it according to the the law, now matter how niggling you think the law is. A person's opinion of a law doesn't change the fact that they are supposed to abide by it. When a high profile person gets caught being a scoff law, they are violators and it reflects on all hunters and fishermen. You are the only person I saw here use the term "moral outrage", however doing wrong is doing wrong and it doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else thinks the law is silly or nit picking. If the authorities who charged those high profile folks with violations would not have done it, there would be plenty of people claiming they got away with it because of who they are. I would rather be criticized for doing my job than for not doing it.

super_hunt54

Oldtimr, I've seen many youtube vids with Alaskan hunting and I'd bet a pretty good sum that few, if any, of those guys paid anything extra for a video permit. The ONLY reason they are going after the "pro's" like Larry is because of the deep pockets. It's a money scam plain and simple. Just like the "having to go through a guide/outfitter service" for a lot of places in Alaska is nothing more than a economic ploy. There are several places in Alaska that even I would have to go through a guide service to hunt even though I have been hunting in Alaska for over 40 years and a part land/rights owner as well as had resident status for quite a few years. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with the "safety of the hunter" and ALL about the economic circle. You are 100% correct in the statement of "Laws are Laws and should all be followed" but the fact is not all laws are adjudicated equally. False residency claims by Mr. Dickson are what the main focus should be on. These namby pamby money scams by the state for no permit for video were only put in that article to buff it up with big names to give it a little more snap for the readers. Some of Alaska's laws are flat out ridiculous and outlandish. Like charging people 2k for NOT filing a report if they didn't connect on an animal! And actually filing a warrant for it! I mean come on, if they didn't fill out a kill report then the assumation would be they didn't connect! Plain and simple. Even my Rotties could figure THAT out! But that's just another ploy for money by the state because one: the rule is (or was) buried in some mighty fine print and two: people forget every year so that's some pocket money for the state.

Getting bent outta shape for the residency issues is great and you dang well should be. But getting bent outta shape of some of the ridiculous offences that may or may not even be true (believe me, the state is by no means clear of people that "lose your paperwork" on purpose) is only adding fuel to the fire.

Oldtimr

WE can agree to disagree on some of what you said but I wish PA had a mandatory report system for deer with a penalty of no license the following year if you don't. The report rate in PA is abysmal less than 50 percent in some counties. People have the option of reporting by computer, telephone or by a postage paid postcard provided with the hunting license and still people do not report. I can perfectly understand why a state would have a report either positive or negative mandate because it will cause a more accurate harvest report, I don't think it is silly at all. Perhaps the penalty is a bit high but I am sure that price will get people's attention.

super_hunt54

Oldtimr, Alaska's report law is you HAVE to send in the report card whether you connect or not. If you are caught transporting meat and don't have a harvest tag you are in a world of hurt and since 99% of non res hunters are flying out, you can bet those ice boxes are checked. Not filling out a report for harvested game should be fined yes, not filling out a report of NON harvest is ridiculous to charge people for. The assumption of non harvest should be implied since it is pretty dang hard to get the meat/ trophy out of there without getting caught. I sure can't think of anyone that would be stupid enough to try it. Pa doesn't have the option of checking all the non res hunters leaving like Alaska does. Most of the Non Res hunters in Pa drive there. I'm sure most of the resident's of Alaska that pull tags report because they know the law. But it's the Non Res hunters that are getting the stiff penalties because that rule is/was buried. And I'm sure Alaska has it's people just like Pa and every other state that hook a blank tag to the ear/antlers and once they get the animal processed at home that tag goes right back in the license holder to be used again. No system is perfect. People in Tennessee drive right on by the check stations, get the deer home, cut it up and go back out that afternoon. A state taking severe advantage of an obscured law/rule towards non residents is about as close to theft or at best scamming as you can get.

Oldtimr

You are flat out wrong. This is something I know more than just a little about! I live in a state where if it was assumed that anyone who did not report did not harvest the harvest for the year would be greatly under estimated, greatly! It is an outrage that we have areas of the state where the report rate is 40 or 50 percent as I stated earlier and it isn't only a few areas. It is important that the states know or have a very good idea what the harvest was so they can set the bag limits in the next season. There is no imposition, none in PA for a person to report their big game kills, there are three different ways, two of which they don't even have to get out of their chair and the other is postage paid for them and yet they don't do it. Because of what I know about the laxness of hunter not reporting their kills either by design or by forgetfulness I think the best way to go is to mandate both success and failure to harvest. It is a stinking shame and a poor commentary on hunters that a failure to report rate of 40 or 50 percent must be built into the harvest calculations. You also must have your kill tag in possession with your animal in PA and there is a good reason for that as well. Tell me how it is a great imposition for you to report either a kill or no kill, how great of an inconvenience is it to you to do so? My kills are reported the same day I make a kill and I would have no problem filing a no kill report at the end of the season, in fact I want to see that happen in PA. A 2,000 dollar fine, nope, no need for a monetary penalty something better. If you do not report, and get a report number, you can't buy a license the following year. I assure you the report rates would jump substantially from what they are now and the PGC would have to start gathering statistics for new report rates for harvests. The problem with the report systems in place now is it is almost impossible to prosecute someone for failure to report. All they have to say is they put it in the mail, it must have gotten lost, or they sent it on their computer, there must have been a glitch, or they phoned it in, there must have been a problem with the system and it is case dismissed. I know, I have seen it. Mandatory reporting, either way, resulting in the hunter being given a report number to provide when they go to buy a new license would solve the problem. The problem with your thinking on the matter is you are assuming that people obey the laws, that is a bad assumption. I am not speaking on assumption, I am speaking about what I know is happening in my state. Even check stations are only as good as people are honest enough to take their animal to a check station before they get it home and it disappears into the freezer.

super_hunt54

Not a thing wrong with mandatory HARVEST check in Oldtimr, I thought I made that clear. What is foolish is the mandatory NON harvest check in. If you aren't going to have a "check in for another tag" setup then you will have to rely on the HONEST hunters that actually fill out their doe/buck tag and send in a report. Not a thing wrong with a system such as that. NON harvest reports are, in my opinion, a waste of time and money (cost of postage, employee going through the net reports, employee phone time, paper/printing costs) all that crap adds up and for what? If the people filled out their harvest reports then the PGC could just run that against tags bought for the states harvest report. Simple, easy, efficient. The dishonest people (those that blank tag hunt) would just fill out a Non harvest report in your scenario anyway so you would be right back where you started with an inaccurate report.

Oldtimr

If it were only that easy. It isn't and people aren't as honest as you think. We will never agree on this so I am going to just let it go. To me, having to report not killing a deer or turkey is no more intrusive than having to do so and the result will be accuracy in harvest numbers much better than now.. BTW, you made it clear several posts ago that you have no dispute with reporting kills. Neither do I and I have no problem reporting not killing because I know the result will be worth it. Neither of us is going to move on this.

olsaltydog

Just to add in my two cents as what you fellas are talking about is like what I deal with. Hunting on base I must sign out to a specific area I will be hunting in. Each area has a limited number of spots most either 10-12. I must declare what animal I am pursuing and by what method and cannot hunt anything else even if I have tags wit any thing else. I must also print my permit information and place it on my dash. If I get a deer or turkey I must go to the game warden station to check out, have them review my deer, take a jaw bone, etc before I can go home. If I get nothing then I must also report how many hours I hunted and that I did not harvest anything. This is almost exactly what you guys are talking about.

Now let me say three things.

1. Our bases does have some of the most detailed information out there because of all of this extra monitoring.
2. This extensive process has caused a lot of hunters to stop hunting on base as it was just too much of a hassle, considering penalties. Can elaborate on those if need be.
3. Every week I talk with the Game Wardens and they still have issues with people falsely saying they caught nothing when in fact they did. They still have people going out hunting without checking in or out. And they also still have the issues with people killing animals they are not supposed to be.

Laws will only keep the honest man honest and no program will be full proof.