Fair Chase vs High Fence Hunting Debate?
#183
Top,
Thank you for the kind words. I do not write professionally, but I do trying diligently to recount every detail from my hunts. In most cases, I show people what not to shot, especially if they're a trophy hunters. I was raised by an incredible meat hunting father-I loved every moment in the woods with him. Thus, I insticntively shoot what God sends. On occassion, I have been fortunate enough to arrow some amazing animals.
With that said, I would not trade my experiences for all the tea in China. For me, the experience is my trophy...when I display the experience, I want it to be perfect.
Muley,
Fair enough, no bet...
Why the bow? It's because it requires a tremendous amount of skill in the hunting arena, probably more so than any other legal method. I preface this on the fact that knives and spears are illegal in this land you and I call home. Otherwise, I would have the hunter hunting with one of those tools. I would win the bet for sure...
At 300 feet per second, I have personally witnessed axis out run the flight of an arrow. The distance was less than 30 yards. At 1350-1800 feet per second, the chances of an axis deer outrunning a ball is less. Sure, the effective ranges are approximately the same, but once a muzzleloader is leveled by a skilled shooter it's game over. The logistics may be the same, but the dynamics are certainly apples to oranges. The bow has a degree of difficulty I found appropriate for the task.
Thank you for the kind words. I do not write professionally, but I do trying diligently to recount every detail from my hunts. In most cases, I show people what not to shot, especially if they're a trophy hunters. I was raised by an incredible meat hunting father-I loved every moment in the woods with him. Thus, I insticntively shoot what God sends. On occassion, I have been fortunate enough to arrow some amazing animals.
With that said, I would not trade my experiences for all the tea in China. For me, the experience is my trophy...when I display the experience, I want it to be perfect.
Muley,
Fair enough, no bet...
Why the bow? It's because it requires a tremendous amount of skill in the hunting arena, probably more so than any other legal method. I preface this on the fact that knives and spears are illegal in this land you and I call home. Otherwise, I would have the hunter hunting with one of those tools. I would win the bet for sure...
At 300 feet per second, I have personally witnessed axis out run the flight of an arrow. The distance was less than 30 yards. At 1350-1800 feet per second, the chances of an axis deer outrunning a ball is less. Sure, the effective ranges are approximately the same, but once a muzzleloader is leveled by a skilled shooter it's game over. The logistics may be the same, but the dynamics are certainly apples to oranges. The bow has a degree of difficulty I found appropriate for the task.
#184
I understand the difficulty of bow hunting, and I wish I had got into it when I was younger. I try and restrict myself as much as I can with my style and weapon. My dad was a still hunter, and that's what he taught me. He always told me to not make hunting too easy. It won't be satisfying, and it won't be enough of a challenge to keep me interested. He was right. For me anyway.
However, getting back to your bet. Isn't the purpose of the bet to show your fenced hunt is just as hard as public land hunt, or do you want to show your way with a bow is harder?
However, getting back to your bet. Isn't the purpose of the bet to show your fenced hunt is just as hard as public land hunt, or do you want to show your way with a bow is harder?
#186
Thank you Champlain. I will indeed contact you with questions as my Newfie hunt draws near. I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to being there! Four of us are driving from Denver (Mapquest says it's 56 hours), taking the ferry across from Sydney, and beginning our hunt on the 22nd of September (right after Colorado's archery elk season). This will be my third attempt at bow hunting a different caribou species. The previous two yeilded two Q-L (DYI on the Cree Nation)and an Alaskan B-G (DYI on the Haul Road) caribou. I fully inderstand the woodland bou will present new challenges...I can't wait! If I am successful, this will also be my third moose species. I've shot an Alaska moose (DIY) and two western Canada moose (Alberta, where I was required to have a guide) awhile back. I am not so worried about the bear, I've successfully spot and stalked plenty. But if a good one exposes himself, I'll give him a good chase. I absolutely love diving into the unknown and finding those places where adventure meets discovery.
Where in Colorado do you hunt elk? Maybe you and I can get together prior to my departure... or thereafter. I love assisting hunters with these magical beasts. They are part of the reason I hunt with a bow. I found killing them and mulies with a rifle was too easy. If I can help you, at all, I will. Elk are truly near and dear to me.
Where in Colorado do you hunt elk? Maybe you and I can get together prior to my departure... or thereafter. I love assisting hunters with these magical beasts. They are part of the reason I hunt with a bow. I found killing them and mulies with a rifle was too easy. If I can help you, at all, I will. Elk are truly near and dear to me.
CI
Last edited by Champlain Islander; 12-31-2012 at 03:32 AM.
#187
Thanks for the information CI. The ferry crossing was a bit of a black spot for me. Renting a cabin with a shower sounds like the way to go, God knows we'll need one by then. My focus will be more on the caribou than the moose. I've been told they can range in the same area. is this correct? I told myself I would begin doing all the research after the first of the year. I guess early is better than never, eh? Do the newfoundlanders say "eh" a lot?
Muley,
Peel the onion, my friend. Have you ever been on a late season elk hunt here in Colorado? Killing an elk when they are at lower elevations, concentrated, and on public land with a scoped high powered rifle is child's play. An iron sight muzzleloader would add a little more difficulty. A bow would add even more difficulty. A sling shot and marble adds even more yet. We have at our disposal a whole cornucopia of tools, do we not? Every situation needs to be assessed, whether it's inside or outside the tool we call a fence (the fence is no different than the bullet we use to run down animals in that it is still a tool). After that assessment, we can decide which tool, or combination of tools, is best suited for the job. If the hunt needs to be challenging and time is not a factor, then perhaps the bow is the best tool for the job. If, on the other hand, time is a factor, then perhaps a scoped rifle is a better choice. I guess that's the neat thing about being a hunter. You get to individually assign that degree of difficulty that best suits you and your pursuits. I really do not think that is a hard concept to understand.
I would allow you to use a crossbow (you can borrow my daughter's) if you'd care to give it a try. When we're done inside the fence, I will take you to a public land hunt (you will have to buy your tag and 3 days worth of food, I'll get the rest) and you can make the comparison yourself. I guarantee you will be surprised what you discovery. The first hunt will be on no more than 1200 acres; the second will be on North America.
What do you say old dog (with all due respect)? Would you care to learn a new trick?
Lucky,
Thanks for your input...When I see the photo of you naked holding a big game animal that you have killed with your bare hands and teeth, then you can address what is lame and what isn't lame with my full respect.
Muley,
Peel the onion, my friend. Have you ever been on a late season elk hunt here in Colorado? Killing an elk when they are at lower elevations, concentrated, and on public land with a scoped high powered rifle is child's play. An iron sight muzzleloader would add a little more difficulty. A bow would add even more difficulty. A sling shot and marble adds even more yet. We have at our disposal a whole cornucopia of tools, do we not? Every situation needs to be assessed, whether it's inside or outside the tool we call a fence (the fence is no different than the bullet we use to run down animals in that it is still a tool). After that assessment, we can decide which tool, or combination of tools, is best suited for the job. If the hunt needs to be challenging and time is not a factor, then perhaps the bow is the best tool for the job. If, on the other hand, time is a factor, then perhaps a scoped rifle is a better choice. I guess that's the neat thing about being a hunter. You get to individually assign that degree of difficulty that best suits you and your pursuits. I really do not think that is a hard concept to understand.
I would allow you to use a crossbow (you can borrow my daughter's) if you'd care to give it a try. When we're done inside the fence, I will take you to a public land hunt (you will have to buy your tag and 3 days worth of food, I'll get the rest) and you can make the comparison yourself. I guarantee you will be surprised what you discovery. The first hunt will be on no more than 1200 acres; the second will be on North America.
What do you say old dog (with all due respect)? Would you care to learn a new trick?
Lucky,
Thanks for your input...When I see the photo of you naked holding a big game animal that you have killed with your bare hands and teeth, then you can address what is lame and what isn't lame with my full respect.
Last edited by iamyourhuckleberry; 12-31-2012 at 05:02 AM.
#188
Actually, the winter range is right outside of my town. It's level, and elk would be sitting ducks. No, I would never hunt that season. I hunt early seasons when the elk are at timber line. As I said already. I wasn't taught to take the easy way. For me the hunt is everything. I don't hunt for just the kill.
Thanks for your offer, but I have to decline. It goes against all I believe in. I only talk for myself when I talk about the way I hunt. When I say a certain style of hunting is wrong. I mean it's wrong for me. Not for others. Everybody is free to hunt like they want to.
As Popeye says.........I yam what I yam.
Thanks for your offer, but I have to decline. It goes against all I believe in. I only talk for myself when I talk about the way I hunt. When I say a certain style of hunting is wrong. I mean it's wrong for me. Not for others. Everybody is free to hunt like they want to.
As Popeye says.........I yam what I yam.