Fair Chase vs High Fence Hunting Debate?
12-30-2012, 12:20 PM
#151
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
Skinnnner,
I hope I can help with your inquiry, "Why do people hunt high fence?" Champlain Islander was spot on, but I think I can take the issue a little further -beyond, "They can"-which in and of itself is a brilliant answer.
Reasons:
1) Not unlike the area outside any fence, wildlife of all sorts needs to be managed. This is especially true on tracts of land which were fenced to keep people out. Examples would be military installations.
2)Fences are not always design to keep animals in. Some are designed to keep animals out! When they get in, they are hunted to get them out. To my knowledge, there isn't a fence in the World designed well enough to keep feral hogs in or out. They go where they want...and much of this could be said for deer (take a little time and research the Woburn Abby in England. It's a 3000 acre deer park surrounded by solid eight foot high stone walls. Deer move freely to and from both sides. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so plentiful and hunted in the surrounding countryside).
3) Fences are used for the preservation of species. There are many example: barasingha deer, rhinos, lions, pierre david deer, etc. At times, it is neccessary to remove older, "past production aged" anuimals. With limited natural resources, such as food and water, this is the best alternative to letting an entire species die. I'm not sure of the exact number, but it has been said every free ranging bison in North America has its origin in some 300 bison which were maintained on private reserves 100 years ago. Scimitar-horned oryx are another perfect example. They were eradicated in their native habitat. Today, as a consequence of animal preserves (which allow the hunting of bulls and past prime cows), oryx are being re-introduced back to Northern Africa. I find it hard to believe there are those willing to financially handicap preservationists by limiting their ability to sell animals. It takes a ton time, land, and money to perpetuate wildlife. The sale/hunting of 10 provides the resources to grow 100. What some of these ranchers do creates a win/win for everyone on this planet. It seems the funds generated by photographers and animal rights activists isn't enough to met the challenges of preservation. If it were, do you think the presevationists would kill their pride? I am glad we have them, and I am very willing to support them. The American Wild Turkey is another success story....
4) With limited access (both inside and outside the fence), such a controlled environment provides a safer location. Have you ever hunted deer on the first day of shotgun season near Hornell, New York? It's scary-trespassers everywhere! I've been there, done that and will never do it again! I stuck to my gun from sun up to sun down with my back against a large oak tree. I prayed I would at least been able to see the hunter's eyes before I was shot. I tried to count seconds between shots. I never made it past three...the entire day. This certainly isn't/wasn't a place I would take my son (could be construed by some as child abuse).
5) Many people are not stigmatized by the presence of the fence. They have accepted the fact that tools such as pit falls, snares, barricades and barries have been used by men daily and universally-from our very existence. For some, it is not a matter of fair chase, but rather survival. I know that's a stretch here in the States. The fact remains the disgrace of the fence is missing, and perhaps rightfully so. We (humans) would not be here had fair chase been the only thing that mattered.
6) I have hunted both inside and outside fence-I openly admit it. It has been my experience, with regard to the locations where I have been (New Zealand, Texas, Africa), that hunting certain aminals can be more challenging inside and less challenging outside (one does not have to pull the trigger on easy). For example, it took me nine different trips to Texas before I successfully arrowed (via spot and stalk) an axis deer. You should know, it is from these nine experiences that I am so willing to place my wager. I had my hat handed to me when I targeted the axis. If it were easy, one would think I'd have a million PMs stemming from my bet. I haven't had a single one in four years-the period the wager has been on the table.
I know, if given the time, I could type more. I need to run...
Champlain,
May I pick your brain on Newfoundland? I am going there with my bow for Caribou, moose, and bear. I would appreciate any information. I hope I'm not hamstrung by the guide I must legally have to comply with Canadian law.
I hope I can help with your inquiry, "Why do people hunt high fence?" Champlain Islander was spot on, but I think I can take the issue a little further -beyond, "They can"-which in and of itself is a brilliant answer.
Reasons:
1) Not unlike the area outside any fence, wildlife of all sorts needs to be managed. This is especially true on tracts of land which were fenced to keep people out. Examples would be military installations.
2)Fences are not always design to keep animals in. Some are designed to keep animals out! When they get in, they are hunted to get them out. To my knowledge, there isn't a fence in the World designed well enough to keep feral hogs in or out. They go where they want...and much of this could be said for deer (take a little time and research the Woburn Abby in England. It's a 3000 acre deer park surrounded by solid eight foot high stone walls. Deer move freely to and from both sides. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so plentiful and hunted in the surrounding countryside).
3) Fences are used for the preservation of species. There are many example: barasingha deer, rhinos, lions, pierre david deer, etc. At times, it is neccessary to remove older, "past production aged" anuimals. With limited natural resources, such as food and water, this is the best alternative to letting an entire species die. I'm not sure of the exact number, but it has been said every free ranging bison in North America has its origin in some 300 bison which were maintained on private reserves 100 years ago. Scimitar-horned oryx are another perfect example. They were eradicated in their native habitat. Today, as a consequence of animal preserves (which allow the hunting of bulls and past prime cows), oryx are being re-introduced back to Northern Africa. I find it hard to believe there are those willing to financially handicap preservationists by limiting their ability to sell animals. It takes a ton time, land, and money to perpetuate wildlife. The sale/hunting of 10 provides the resources to grow 100. What some of these ranchers do creates a win/win for everyone on this planet. It seems the funds generated by photographers and animal rights activists isn't enough to met the challenges of preservation. If it were, do you think the presevationists would kill their pride? I am glad we have them, and I am very willing to support them. The American Wild Turkey is another success story....
4) With limited access (both inside and outside the fence), such a controlled environment provides a safer location. Have you ever hunted deer on the first day of shotgun season near Hornell, New York? It's scary-trespassers everywhere! I've been there, done that and will never do it again! I stuck to my gun from sun up to sun down with my back against a large oak tree. I prayed I would at least been able to see the hunter's eyes before I was shot. I tried to count seconds between shots. I never made it past three...the entire day. This certainly isn't/wasn't a place I would take my son (could be construed by some as child abuse).
5) Many people are not stigmatized by the presence of the fence. They have accepted the fact that tools such as pit falls, snares, barricades and barries have been used by men daily and universally-from our very existence. For some, it is not a matter of fair chase, but rather survival. I know that's a stretch here in the States. The fact remains the disgrace of the fence is missing, and perhaps rightfully so. We (humans) would not be here had fair chase been the only thing that mattered.
6) I have hunted both inside and outside fence-I openly admit it. It has been my experience, with regard to the locations where I have been (New Zealand, Texas, Africa), that hunting certain aminals can be more challenging inside and less challenging outside (one does not have to pull the trigger on easy). For example, it took me nine different trips to Texas before I successfully arrowed (via spot and stalk) an axis deer. You should know, it is from these nine experiences that I am so willing to place my wager. I had my hat handed to me when I targeted the axis. If it were easy, one would think I'd have a million PMs stemming from my bet. I haven't had a single one in four years-the period the wager has been on the table.
I know, if given the time, I could type more. I need to run...
Champlain,
May I pick your brain on Newfoundland? I am going there with my bow for Caribou, moose, and bear. I would appreciate any information. I hope I'm not hamstrung by the guide I must legally have to comply with Canadian law.
12-30-2012, 12:23 PM
#152
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 595
skinnner, I dont think anyone here has said that high fence is just like "real" hunting.
How about this, lets rank different hunting situations as hardest to easiest for deer. You need to shoot an above average animal with a gun.
1. stand/blind hunting private
2. stand/blind hunting public
3. western diy
4. western guided
5. 10 guy deer drives
6. 1000 acre high fence
For me it is,
3
2
1
5
4
6
How about this, lets rank different hunting situations as hardest to easiest for deer. You need to shoot an above average animal with a gun.
1. stand/blind hunting private
2. stand/blind hunting public
3. western diy
4. western guided
5. 10 guy deer drives
6. 1000 acre high fence
For me it is,
3
2
1
5
4
6
12-30-2012, 12:35 PM
#153
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
skinnner, I dont think anyone here has said that high fence is just like "real" hunting.
How about this, lets rank different hunting situations as hardest to easiest for deer. You need to shoot an above average animal with a gun.
1. stand/blind hunting private
2. stand/blind hunting public
3. western diy
4. western guided
5. 10 guy deer drives
6. 1000 acre high fence
For me it is,
3
2
1
5
4
6
How about this, lets rank different hunting situations as hardest to easiest for deer. You need to shoot an above average animal with a gun.
1. stand/blind hunting private
2. stand/blind hunting public
3. western diy
4. western guided
5. 10 guy deer drives
6. 1000 acre high fence
For me it is,
3
2
1
5
4
6
12-30-2012, 01:38 PM
#155
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 55
There are many advertisements for high fence and preserve hunts on this website. Granted everyone does not choose to do them but quite a few people avail themselves of these opportunities. The definition of hunt is to pursue game. If you choose to pursue game with a guide or guides, you are still hunting. That is one thing we all have in common here. You can hunt your way and I can hunt mine but let's stick together!
12-30-2012, 01:51 PM
#156
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
Skinner please take this up with your local fish and game. They say it is legitimate hunting because you are need a valid *hunting* license to do it. Please do not confuse high fence with hunting preserve where you do not need a hunting license.
There are many advertisements for high fence and preserve hunts on this website. Granted everyone does not choose to do them but quite a few people avail themselves of these opportunities. The definition of hunt is to pursue game. If you choose to pursue game with a guide or guides, you are still hunting. That is one thing we all have in common here. You can hunt your way and I can hunt mine but let's stick together!
There are many advertisements for high fence and preserve hunts on this website. Granted everyone does not choose to do them but quite a few people avail themselves of these opportunities. The definition of hunt is to pursue game. If you choose to pursue game with a guide or guides, you are still hunting. That is one thing we all have in common here. You can hunt your way and I can hunt mine but let's stick together!
12-30-2012, 01:55 PM
#157
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Intreasting,ill have to look into it.do they also only allow hunting the same time as regular hunting?the ones iv seen dont follow the same season dates.and i agree with you on sticking together i just dont believe in forceing ones beliefs on someone else then getting all excieted when they dont agree with u.
12-30-2012, 02:12 PM
#158
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
Beliefs on anyone,nearly every
Post iv made iv stated to each their own or something similar.its just not something im intreasted in,i believe iv stated that also several times.
12-30-2012, 02:18 PM
#159
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
Skinner please take this up with your local fish and game. They say it is legitimate hunting because you are need a valid *hunting* license to do it. Please do not confuse high fence with hunting preserve where you do not need a hunting license.
There are many advertisements for high fence and preserve hunts on this website. Granted everyone does not choose to do them but quite a few people avail themselves of these opportunities. The definition of hunt is to pursue game. If you choose to pursue game with a guide or guides, you are still hunting. That is one thing we all have in common here. You can hunt your way and I can hunt mine but let's stick together!
There are many advertisements for high fence and preserve hunts on this website. Granted everyone does not choose to do them but quite a few people avail themselves of these opportunities. The definition of hunt is to pursue game. If you choose to pursue game with a guide or guides, you are still hunting. That is one thing we all have in common here. You can hunt your way and I can hunt mine but let's stick together!
12-30-2012, 02:19 PM
#160
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
and you haven't been?
I believe I made 1/2 dozen posts trying to explain to you that a bet was up to you to accept or decline and your pitch point was someone was forceing you do do it his way when all he did was give you a choice.
Then ya was asking questions looking for fodder to berate, and browbeat again on a subject that
1) you have no interest in
2) doesn't cost you a nickel
3) is perfectly legal
I don't get it
RR
I believe I made 1/2 dozen posts trying to explain to you that a bet was up to you to accept or decline and your pitch point was someone was forceing you do do it his way when all he did was give you a choice.
Then ya was asking questions looking for fodder to berate, and browbeat again on a subject that
1) you have no interest in
2) doesn't cost you a nickel
3) is perfectly legal
I don't get it
RR
I don't bow hunt, and have no plans to start this late in life.
I have no interest in hunting a fenced hunt. I would be a hypocrite to take the bet to hunt an area i'm against, and I have been my whole life. On top of that. What would the prize be if I won? A free hunt in a fenced area. Ridiculous!
You're in this thread too. Why don't you take the bet?