Fair Chase vs High Fence Hunting Debate?
12-30-2012, 11:30 AM
#142
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
LOL! Why would you think I was talking to you if you didn't read the post!!! Blocked my rear, more like being hardheaded, LOL! PS: I believe if you had me blocked I wouldn't have just been able to send you a nice PM!
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 12-30-2012 at 11:36 AM.
12-30-2012, 11:36 AM
#143
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
He can read your post now, because I quoted you, and he can read my post.
12-30-2012, 11:42 AM
#144
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
Yes now i can read it since muley posted it.you must have me mistaken for someone who cares what you think.i dont see any hate mail in my inbox but if i do ill just send it to a mod.topgun im not going to toerate your childish acts so go play elsewhere.
12-30-2012, 11:43 AM
#145
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Yea, I know how it works! It just seems a little weird to say he put me on ignore just because of this little squabble on fences and he really has made more posts on this thread regarding his view and then accuses me of doing what he is. IMHO there's nothing wrong with being opinionated anyway, as long as things stay civil and I haven't seen any nasty language or threats being made on the thread by anyone.
EDIT:Skinnnner---I didn't send you any hate mail or PMs. I sent one nice PM and another message asking for you be my friend on this site.
PPS: I actually went in that quote up above and changed it to hardheaded from blockhead trying to be nice about things.
EDIT:Skinnnner---I didn't send you any hate mail or PMs. I sent one nice PM and another message asking for you be my friend on this site.
PPS: I actually went in that quote up above and changed it to hardheaded from blockhead trying to be nice about things.
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 12-30-2012 at 11:47 AM.
12-30-2012, 11:54 AM
#147
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Where animals get eaten
Posts: 671
Hes ignored because iv already heard his opinion several times and its the same thing over and over,he just cant come to terms with me seeing it diffrently then he does.but seeing his childish behavour now in the message you posted and threating to send me nice mail,i think i made the right choice in blocking him.
12-30-2012, 11:58 AM
#149
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
I'm not asking you or anyone else too, but I can express my opinion just like you have on yours more times than I have. What don't you get about that? I've come to terms a long time ago on your view of fences and I didn't need to put you on ignore. You're being very childish about this whole thing. If everybody did what you did on this thread, they'd all have you on ignore Mr. skinnnner! I repeat; all I did was send you a nice PM and another message asking to be your friend! Geesh!!!
Last edited by Topgun 3006; 12-30-2012 at 12:01 PM.
12-30-2012, 12:11 PM
#150
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
Skinnnner,
I hope I can help with your inquiry, "Why do people hunt high fence?" Champlain Islander was spot on, but I think I can take the issue a little further -beyond, "They can"-which in and of itself is a brilliant answer.
Reasons:
1) Not unlike the area outside any fence, wildlife of all sorts needs to be managed. This is especially true on tracts of land which were fenced to keep people out. Examples would be military installations.
2)Fences are not always design to keep animals in. Some are designed to keep animals out! When they get in, they are hunted to get them out. To my knowledge, there isn't a fence in the World designed well enough to keep feral hogs in or out. They go where they want...and much of this could be said for deer (take a little time and research the Woburn Abby in England. It's a 3000 acre deer park surrounded by solid eight foot high stone walls. Deer move freely to and from both sides. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so plentiful and hunted in the surrounding countryside).
3) Fences are used for the preservation of species. There are many example: barasingha deer, rhinos, lions, pierre david deer, etc. At times, it is neccessary to remove older, "past production aged" anuimals. With limited natural resources, such as food and water, this is the best alternative to letting an entire species die. I'm not sure of the exact number, but it has been said every free ranging bison in North America has its origin in some 300 bison which were maintained on private reserves 100 years ago. Scimitar-horned oryx are another perfect example. They were eradicated in their native habitat. Today, as a consequence of animal preserves (which allow the hunting of bulls and past prime cows), oryx are being re-introduced back to Northern Africa. I find it hard to believe there are those willing to financially handicap preservationists by limiting their ability to sell animals. It takes a ton time, land, and money to perpetuate wildlife. The sale/hunting of 10 provides the resources to grow 100. What some of these ranchers do creates a win/win for everyone on this planet. It seems the funds generated by photographers and animal rights activists isn't enough to met the challenges of preservation. If it were, do you think the presevationists would kill their pride? I am glad we have them, and I am very willing to support them. The American Wild Turkey is another success story....
4) With limited access (both inside and outside the fence), such a controlled environment provides a safer location. Have you ever hunted deer on the first day of shotgun season near Hornell, New York? It's scary-trespassers everywhere! I've been there, done that and will never do it again! I stuck to my gun from sun up to sun down with my back against a large oak tree. I prayed I would at least been able to see the hunter's eyes before I was shot. I tried to count seconds between shots. I never made it past three...the entire day. This certainly isn't/wasn't a place I would take my son (could be construed by some as child abuse).
5) Many people are not stigmatized by the presence of the fence. They have accepted the fact that tools such as pit falls, snares, barricades and barries have been used by men daily and universally-from our very existence. For some, it is not a matter of fair chase, but rather survival. I know that's a stretch here in the States. The fact remains the disgrace of the fence is missing, and perhaps rightfully so. We (humans) would not be here had fair chase been the only thing that mattered.
6) I have hunted both inside and outside fence-I openly admit it. It has been my experience, with regard to the locations where I have been (New Zealand, Texas, Africa), that hunting certain aminals can be more challenging inside and less challenging outside (one does not have to pull the trigger on easy). For example, it took me nine different trips to Texas before I successfully arrowed (via spot and stalk) an axis deer. You should know, it is from these nine experiences that I am so willing to place my wager. I had my hat handed to me when I targeted the axis. If it were easy, one would think I'd have a million PMs stemming from my bet. I haven't had a single one in four years-the period the wager has been on the table.
I know, if given the time, I could type more. I need to run...
Champlain,
May I pick your brain on Newfoundland? I am going there with my bow for Caribou, moose, and bear. I would appreciate any information. I hope I'm not hamstrung by the guide I must legally have to comply with Canadian law.
I hope I can help with your inquiry, "Why do people hunt high fence?" Champlain Islander was spot on, but I think I can take the issue a little further -beyond, "They can"-which in and of itself is a brilliant answer.
Reasons:
1) Not unlike the area outside any fence, wildlife of all sorts needs to be managed. This is especially true on tracts of land which were fenced to keep people out. Examples would be military installations.
2)Fences are not always design to keep animals in. Some are designed to keep animals out! When they get in, they are hunted to get them out. To my knowledge, there isn't a fence in the World designed well enough to keep feral hogs in or out. They go where they want...and much of this could be said for deer (take a little time and research the Woburn Abby in England. It's a 3000 acre deer park surrounded by solid eight foot high stone walls. Deer move freely to and from both sides. If they didn't, they wouldn't be so plentiful and hunted in the surrounding countryside).
3) Fences are used for the preservation of species. There are many example: barasingha deer, rhinos, lions, pierre david deer, etc. At times, it is neccessary to remove older, "past production aged" anuimals. With limited natural resources, such as food and water, this is the best alternative to letting an entire species die. I'm not sure of the exact number, but it has been said every free ranging bison in North America has its origin in some 300 bison which were maintained on private reserves 100 years ago. Scimitar-horned oryx are another perfect example. They were eradicated in their native habitat. Today, as a consequence of animal preserves (which allow the hunting of bulls and past prime cows), oryx are being re-introduced back to Northern Africa. I find it hard to believe there are those willing to financially handicap preservationists by limiting their ability to sell animals. It takes a ton time, land, and money to perpetuate wildlife. The sale/hunting of 10 provides the resources to grow 100. What some of these ranchers do creates a win/win for everyone on this planet. It seems the funds generated by photographers and animal rights activists isn't enough to met the challenges of preservation. If it were, do you think the presevationists would kill their pride? I am glad we have them, and I am very willing to support them. The American Wild Turkey is another success story....
4) With limited access (both inside and outside the fence), such a controlled environment provides a safer location. Have you ever hunted deer on the first day of shotgun season near Hornell, New York? It's scary-trespassers everywhere! I've been there, done that and will never do it again! I stuck to my gun from sun up to sun down with my back against a large oak tree. I prayed I would at least been able to see the hunter's eyes before I was shot. I tried to count seconds between shots. I never made it past three...the entire day. This certainly isn't/wasn't a place I would take my son (could be construed by some as child abuse).
5) Many people are not stigmatized by the presence of the fence. They have accepted the fact that tools such as pit falls, snares, barricades and barries have been used by men daily and universally-from our very existence. For some, it is not a matter of fair chase, but rather survival. I know that's a stretch here in the States. The fact remains the disgrace of the fence is missing, and perhaps rightfully so. We (humans) would not be here had fair chase been the only thing that mattered.
6) I have hunted both inside and outside fence-I openly admit it. It has been my experience, with regard to the locations where I have been (New Zealand, Texas, Africa), that hunting certain aminals can be more challenging inside and less challenging outside (one does not have to pull the trigger on easy). For example, it took me nine different trips to Texas before I successfully arrowed (via spot and stalk) an axis deer. You should know, it is from these nine experiences that I am so willing to place my wager. I had my hat handed to me when I targeted the axis. If it were easy, one would think I'd have a million PMs stemming from my bet. I haven't had a single one in four years-the period the wager has been on the table.
I know, if given the time, I could type more. I need to run...
Champlain,
May I pick your brain on Newfoundland? I am going there with my bow for Caribou, moose, and bear. I would appreciate any information. I hope I'm not hamstrung by the guide I must legally have to comply with Canadian law.