The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
04-14-2003, 06:48 AM
#1
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The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
I' m posting this as it appears on another forum. It would be nice if the moderator didn' t lock this as soon as it appears, assuming this will become an argument. I think most on here will keep there comments civil (hopefully). So please let this thread be until such time as proven otherwise. I' ll post the original webpage to which this came from but I' ll cut and paste the remarks here.........." Hello. My name is Robert Everitt and I am the Regional director for the Washington Fish and Game Commission. I was forwarded the information regarding this cougar and was asked if I would care to respond to it on this forum. As far as the photograph being altered as some have claimed, I myself have no opinion regarding that. I am only basing my opinion on the information that has been made available to me though various news groups and the information listed on the Boone and Crockett web site, where rumors of large animals taken are posted (sometimes along with pictures). First off a little background. Our cougar season runs from August 1 to March 15 with a 2 cougar limit. Although thousands of licenses are issued every year, very few individuals are successful with hunter success rate the past few years varying between 3-5%. Usually less than 250 cougars are harvested each year statewide. The information supplied on the B&C rumors page states that the large cat was taken around the Bellevue area, which is just east of Seattle, and located in region 4. The article goes on to say that the cat was called in by Jim Hackewitz and shot by Ron Hislar, from Duval, Wa. It is mandatory that cougar hunters (successful) submit a Hunter Report form. The Washington Fish and Game commission has not only never received a hunter report form from either of the two individuals mentioned, but no cougar license has been issued to anyone by those names in the past 5 years. Due to this major discrepancy, the fact that we have no record whatsoever of either hunter taking this cat, it stands to reason that the validity of the rest of the story has no merit. It should also be noted that succesful cougar hunters must fill out the mandatory cougar hunter report form in person at one of the WDFW offices. Please call the WDFW Wildlife Program at 360-902-2515 or email them at [email protected] for more information on cougar reporting. I hope this clears things up somewhat." http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/TF/th...es=57&forum=16
04-14-2003, 06:57 AM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
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RE: The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
I think what may have happened is that a picture was posted on the web, as you did on the original thread we had here, of an animal that was misrepresented because the poster didn' t have all the facts.
You posted a cougar' s picture claiming it was the World Record shot by Scott Moore, but it wasn' t that cat at all. You had the wrong picture. You may have pulled it from the Bearpaw Outfitters site by mistake or you may have tried to find a picture to validate your points and used the closest you could find.
But you did post a picture of an animal and claim facts for it that weren' t true. It' s entirely possible you did it witout even realizing it like the guy who posted the WA cougar guy may have.
You posted a cougar' s picture claiming it was the World Record shot by Scott Moore, but it wasn' t that cat at all. You had the wrong picture. You may have pulled it from the Bearpaw Outfitters site by mistake or you may have tried to find a picture to validate your points and used the closest you could find.
But you did post a picture of an animal and claim facts for it that weren' t true. It' s entirely possible you did it witout even realizing it like the guy who posted the WA cougar guy may have.
04-14-2003, 07:10 AM
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RE: The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
MA Jay, I admit I erroneously included the wrong picture for the information I provided regarding the P&Y WR. But there' s a big difference between that and this. First off there are many small details included regarding this animal allegedly taken in Washington, where it was shot, the weight, the score, an update on the score, how the animal was harvested, who harvested the animal who did the calling etc. They seemed certain about the facts, otherwise why state them. Toss into the equation that the story was specific to the picture on the page and you see why I have a problem with this. If all the facts regarding the story are false, as it appears they are, why would the picture have any validity. It' s not like there was an honest mistake. The whole story was about this cat.
04-14-2003, 08:52 AM
#6
Boone & Crockett
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RE: The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
I just have one question, correct that, two questions.
One, was the animal taken with a bow?
Two, White Raven, I have noticed that you have been involved with more than one thread regarding suspicious record book animals. Do you have some sort of professional involvement with proving or disproving possible record book animals or is this just a personal interest?
One, was the animal taken with a bow?
Two, White Raven, I have noticed that you have been involved with more than one thread regarding suspicious record book animals. Do you have some sort of professional involvement with proving or disproving possible record book animals or is this just a personal interest?
04-14-2003, 08:59 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
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RE: The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
From the last thread!
quote:
Bowfanatic, how can you possibly say my contact doesn' t mean anything? That' s the most absurd statement so far. He' s the Regional Director for God' s sake and can tell you the truth about this alleged harvest.
Regional director from where? Read slowly....The stats behind the kill are all rumors! If the cat was not harvested in Washington , then your regional director would not have a clue , would he?
From this thread:
Quote from your regional director:
" I am only basing my opinion on the information that has been made available to me though various news groups and the information listed on the Boone and Crockett web site, where rumors of large animals taken are posted (sometimes along with pictures)."
Once again , the only thing you have proven is that the RUMOR of the location of kill is false!
I' m sure everyone here remembers the pic of the huge brown bear going around in email that said was killed at point blank range by a deerhunter using a handgun as a result of the bear charging the hunter? RUMORS! The truth was told in a hunting magazine , but the pic was real as is the pic of the cougar.
You obviously dont have any skills related to photography or " fake photos" . If you look closely at the pic you' ll notice certain things that stand out as the pics authenticity. The biggest being how the cougars skin/fur envelopes the mans left arm (right side looking at pic). You' ll also notice how this gentleman is slightly bent at the knees and bent backwards at the lower back which indicates he is having diffeculty lifting the cat (very heavy). Absolutely nothing is known about this gentleman , he could be 5' 6" tall which would make the cat appear like a giant.
I honestly think you need to give this a rest!
quote:
Bowfanatic, how can you possibly say my contact doesn' t mean anything? That' s the most absurd statement so far. He' s the Regional Director for God' s sake and can tell you the truth about this alleged harvest.
Regional director from where? Read slowly....The stats behind the kill are all rumors! If the cat was not harvested in Washington , then your regional director would not have a clue , would he?
From this thread:
Quote from your regional director:
" I am only basing my opinion on the information that has been made available to me though various news groups and the information listed on the Boone and Crockett web site, where rumors of large animals taken are posted (sometimes along with pictures)."
Once again , the only thing you have proven is that the RUMOR of the location of kill is false!
I' m sure everyone here remembers the pic of the huge brown bear going around in email that said was killed at point blank range by a deerhunter using a handgun as a result of the bear charging the hunter? RUMORS! The truth was told in a hunting magazine , but the pic was real as is the pic of the cougar.
You obviously dont have any skills related to photography or " fake photos" . If you look closely at the pic you' ll notice certain things that stand out as the pics authenticity. The biggest being how the cougars skin/fur envelopes the mans left arm (right side looking at pic). You' ll also notice how this gentleman is slightly bent at the knees and bent backwards at the lower back which indicates he is having diffeculty lifting the cat (very heavy). Absolutely nothing is known about this gentleman , he could be 5' 6" tall which would make the cat appear like a giant.
I honestly think you need to give this a rest!
04-14-2003, 09:00 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rochester NY USA
Posts: 81
RE: The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
you didn' t make any claims about the validity of the story - you didn' t know anything about that at the time - but you you " knew" it was an altered picture, and all the people who had responded to the thread needed a " reality check" . shadows and unrealistic body length were your arguments. Why can' t you stick to the topic of the picture and your original arguement???
http://www.desertusa.com/may96/du_mlion.html
" Adult males may be more than 8 feet long from nose to end of tail and generally weigh between 130 and 150 pounds. Adult females can be 7 feet long and weigh between 65 and 90 pounds"
not 8ft plus the length of a tail. why don' t you give us the length of some of your mt. lions that you' ve shot or measured from nose to end of tail - unstreched skin. that way we can understand why you beleive what you do and then you can say " Well guys, i' m not sure that pic looks real, I' ve measured mt. lions this long ___ and that lion looks much to short to me" - even though it looks like other pictures of mt. lions and even though guys that have harvested or help harvested lots of lions don' t see anything fishy about the length of the lion which was your ORIGINAL argument that you were so sure about. you' ve already been told all that and you just don' t want to believe you might be wrong so you ignore it and find other evidence that might suggest all the facts aren' t known. WHY???? What is your insane reason for thinking you are God' s chosen one to keep(in a obnoxious way) others from believing or just waiting for more info or accepting they just don' t know the facts on something - not for the chosen one though, you " know" the " real" facts, and demand everyone believe your explanation.
And we all know the B&C page is a rumours page, no one stated differently - the point was your so positive, that you know its not a rumour, you have no doubt about the validty, so now its a " fact" its a fake so you should go let them know. it was sarcasm and menat to be a joke, but your so wired up about proving yourself right you can' t see that. too busy jumping to different ways to prove the pic is a fake.
Eric
http://www.desertusa.com/may96/du_mlion.html
" Adult males may be more than 8 feet long from nose to end of tail and generally weigh between 130 and 150 pounds. Adult females can be 7 feet long and weigh between 65 and 90 pounds"
not 8ft plus the length of a tail. why don' t you give us the length of some of your mt. lions that you' ve shot or measured from nose to end of tail - unstreched skin. that way we can understand why you beleive what you do and then you can say " Well guys, i' m not sure that pic looks real, I' ve measured mt. lions this long ___ and that lion looks much to short to me" - even though it looks like other pictures of mt. lions and even though guys that have harvested or help harvested lots of lions don' t see anything fishy about the length of the lion which was your ORIGINAL argument that you were so sure about. you' ve already been told all that and you just don' t want to believe you might be wrong so you ignore it and find other evidence that might suggest all the facts aren' t known. WHY???? What is your insane reason for thinking you are God' s chosen one to keep(in a obnoxious way) others from believing or just waiting for more info or accepting they just don' t know the facts on something - not for the chosen one though, you " know" the " real" facts, and demand everyone believe your explanation.
And we all know the B&C page is a rumours page, no one stated differently - the point was your so positive, that you know its not a rumour, you have no doubt about the validty, so now its a " fact" its a fake so you should go let them know. it was sarcasm and menat to be a joke, but your so wired up about proving yourself right you can' t see that. too busy jumping to different ways to prove the pic is a fake.
Eric
04-14-2003, 09:26 AM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 801
RE: The Skinny on the Big Cougar cougar
BOWFANATIC-
That can NOT be a real cougar! The head and neck aren' t 3 feet long! That must be a cub or something, since a 9 and 1/2 foot long cougar (nose to butt w/out tail) would be able to inhale that little thing.
Just kidding of course ... but that is a nice picture of a gutted " full" grown mountain lion.
That can NOT be a real cougar! The head and neck aren' t 3 feet long! That must be a cub or something, since a 9 and 1/2 foot long cougar (nose to butt w/out tail) would be able to inhale that little thing.
Just kidding of course ... but that is a nice picture of a gutted " full" grown mountain lion.