DM

Well, point that one out to me if you can, i'd like to reread it and see what i posted... I really try to keep to subjects and facts that i experienced, so perhaps i need to make a correction there...

In the past ispent a huge amount of time testing bullets, as i was mfg them for resale. I found if you use proper bullets in the first place, you just don't need a cannon for hunting big game. If someone wants to use one, that's fine with me but it isn't always necessary. BUT,i'm NOT adovacating the use of small caliber or pip squeek cartridges on big game here, even though there are some very good small caliber bullets available today....

DM

EKM

** (talking about a standard cartridge)
"A 'properly loaded" 30-06 (200 NP's) will break both shoulders of any bear alive, and a high shoulder shot will damage the spinal cord, anchoring the bear... "

** (talking about a magnum cartridge)
"A 7 Rem. mag. loaded with 175 NP's is even bigger medicine, so don't tell me you need 30 cal. on up for big bears... "

** (denying mag advantage given what was just said)
"I can't see where a "magnum" out shines any decent std. cartridge that's "properly loaded", at any decent range... "
================================================== =

A contradiction in my read....

I'll still give ya the "AK Stud" points though.

DM

Really? I don't see that as a contradiction at all... YES, there's a mag. advantage, but it isn't needed. A 460 Wby. has an even bigger advantage, but it isn't needed either...

I did use a poor choise of words in your last quote though...

I should have worded it... I can't see where a "magnum" out shines any decent std. cartridge "on big game" that's "properly loaded", when used at any decent range...

What i'm saying is, thata properly loaded30-06 can and does do the job... The 7 mag. is a smaller bullet, but properly loaded it will do it too... (that falls in with those that think even a .30 is too small) Also, the 7 mag. shoots flatter, and that's an advantage if you choose to shoot at long range... (I don't condone shooting long range at bears)

I shot a brown bear with a 264 Win. Mag., didn't impress me much, but it said MAGNUM on the cartridge... I heavily tested the .338-06 against the 350 Rem. Mag., and the .338 bullets out performed the 35's,so i chose to build the .338-06 and it didn't say MAGNUM on that cartridge either.

My point being: a properly loaded 30-06 will get you there, and thereARE many cartridges that do have more power... (read bigger medicine) BUT, they aren't necessarily needed.

I learned long ago, it's the BULLET you choose to use that makes more of adifference, than the cartridge behind it!

I hope i explainedmyself better in this post...

DM

homers brother

That's a pretty bold statement there, EKM. I'm to assume that "actually taking a bear" is what qualifies one to apply to your "AK Stud" club? And the reason anyone would WANT to be in your club in the first place is: what, you've shot more bears than anyone else? You've lived in Alaska all your life?

You might be surprised (especially from your armchair in Denver) to know that many Alaskans don't actually HUNT bears. They're more concerned about running into them accidentally while hunting something else (most often, moose), or while engaged in another activity (most often, fishing).

Yet, these are the same people who remain long after the termination dust hits the Chugach, unlike the hunters who come there with bags of money and a desire to join "your club" by shooting a bear, and then go back to the lower 48.I wonder if they appreciate someone in Denver deciding who among them are "studs"? I'll bet they could care less?

I know I could care less what you think. My experience in Alaska is satisfaction enough. I tooktwo moose, three caribou, and a Dall sheep while I was there. Didn't hunt bear, didn't want to hunt bear, nor did I ever have any interest running into one accidentally. I spent two weeks in a tent in January at 72 degrees below zero or less, I've actually seen the bottom of the windchill chart. But, I was there just four years. It takes a hardy person to be an "Alaskan" year-after-year, and they don't need to actually shoot a bear toearn my respect. All I can hopeis to be a gracious enough guestthat they'll keep letting me return.

You generally give pretty reasonable advice though. I'm not sure what's gotten you into such a twist with this thread?

Alsatian

Personally, my aesthetic preference is for using a smaller cartridge -- but adequate -- for a given game species rather than a bigger cartridge. For example, when hunting deer and pronghorn antelope I would prefer to use my .25-06 or my .243 rather than my .30-06. The .30-06 will get the job done and will not tear up meat inordinately . . . but it is bigger than is necessary. The .25-06 and .243 are plenty of gun if I do my job, putting a bullet where it needs to go.

On the otherhand, I am attracted to the idea of getting a .338 Win Mag for elk hunting to use instead of my .30-06. Most people will admit the .30-06 is enough gun for elk. . . but I also sense from discussionsthat under some circumstances the .338 win mag might be preferred (1) longer range, quartering away shot; (2) less than ideal shooting conditions maybe late in the season or one-time opportunity on a trophy individual (generally I am not a trophy hunter but a meat hunter wanting a good hunting experience, but I suppose if a trophy happened to throw himself in front of me I would be as motivated as the next guy to harvest this animal -- trophies provide meat too); (3) hunting in grizzly bear country. Maybe if I had more first hand elk hunting experience I would be more confident and settled in my use of the .30-06. Maybe I'm sub-consciously fishing for an excuse to buy a new rifle in .338 win mag?

RedRiverHntr

Sorry I am late to the dance.....scattershooting in seeming randomness:

Fret no longer! You can enhance your johnson! I have the remedy. Saw it in the back of Field and Stream!
I saw where this was referenced in an earlier post and thought anyone that is only buying a bigger cartridge out of "johnson" envy could just order some of this stuff and save money!!!

Question is.....if you wife says she wants a bigger cartridge? Is she talking metaphors? Does she mean to replace you? Is she just wanting something with more punch for killing game?

Lastly, here's a question for ya:
You are driving down the highway in your pickup. No, it's not a truck! That would make you a truck driver and you would need 14 more wheels, but I digress. A guy passes you in his ferrari. Do you condemn/ridicule him for having more vehicle than he needs to drive down the road at the posted limits of speed? Or do you allow that he is just traveling down the same road as you....though choosing to get there in a different configuration. Does it make you feel better to suggest that he is somehow more arrogant, less of a driver, has a smaller appendage so must be compensating, etc.?
Some of us just are just looking for discussions that provoke constructive thought. (But don't get mad at me if I happen to ogle your trophy in the passenger seat of your sports car!)

robbcayman

LMAO!!

homers brother

Yes Red, you're late to the dance. Your date already left with someone else....

Actually, the discussion's been about calibers and whether larger is better.How about we look at it this way...

Uncle Sam "stimulates" the economy again and you find yourself in possession of $1500. You've always wanted to hunt elk in Wyoming, but you've heard on this forum that there might be bears there. You already own a .30-06, but have heard on this forum that it's too small for bears, you need something bigger. Your tag will cost upwards of a third of your windfall, lodging, meals, and incidentals consume the rest. That shiny new .338 will run you almost the entire amount once you put decent glass on it. What do you do:

1) Who knows when you'll save enough again, you put in for the draw and plan to go hunt elk?

or

2) You buy the big cannon and hope the your uncle is kind to you again someday so that you might actually use it on the elk hunt that you now cannot afford?

I know I'm hunting this year.

EKM

The thread title is "Are bigger cartridges really better."

As DM pointed out the measuring stick seems to go to huntingthe big bears of Alaska,

Since that is where the discussion went, so wentmy remarks....

And within that discussion,I give more points tothose that haveactually done it. Period.
** An AK Stud in a brownie or polar bear discussion is one that has done it.
** An AK Stud in a residence-winter-endurancediscussion is one that has done it.
** An AK Stud in a halibut fishing discussion is one that has done it.

One that has lived in AK and has encountered the great bearsgets more points than someone (like me) that hasn't, right up to the claim of what works forbest for taking the great bears versus what don't, at that point things plateau real quick. If one hasn't bore down on one and put him away, then you just haven't, no matter where you are from.

Like I said, "....not so much."

MakeUr1stShotCount

Peter Capstick spent a lot of time in Africa and his book on guiding spends an entire chapter on this. He acknowledges both sides, but makes some really interesting points: (a) You better be able to handle the big cartridge you're shooting or it'll do you little good, and (b) if you really can pinpoint your shot, the smaller calibers will in fact do the job.

For me, I reckon I'd want something that I know for a fact I can put in the kill spot....and something too that if faced with a charge, will finish the job. Like Capstick said, "It's one thing to hit the kill zone from a resting position at a safe distance; make sure you can repeat that feat at a distance measured in feet if it occurs."