Wall Tents??
01-09-2003, 05:45 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rancho Murieta CA USA
Posts: 160
Wall Tents??
I'm fixin to buy a wall tent for my elk camp and had some questions for the board:
Canvas or Relite? The relite appears to be about half the weight, but worried about the durability.
Internal frame or traditional poles? Does either one stand out over the other..better stability in high wind,etc.? I think the poles would be a little bulkier, but I carry a pretty heavy camp anyways.
What about assembly? Chances are that I'll be putting this thing up by myself most years? Any other comments anyone has would be appreciated.
Life begins where the pavement ends!
Canvas or Relite? The relite appears to be about half the weight, but worried about the durability.
Internal frame or traditional poles? Does either one stand out over the other..better stability in high wind,etc.? I think the poles would be a little bulkier, but I carry a pretty heavy camp anyways.
What about assembly? Chances are that I'll be putting this thing up by myself most years? Any other comments anyone has would be appreciated.
Life begins where the pavement ends!
01-09-2003, 08:20 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: McCall Idaho USA
Posts: 753
RE: Wall Tents??
I'm from your neck of the woods. I used to live in Murphys CA. I've golfed at Rancho Murieta golf course several times. Now for your question on wall tents, I've used both kinds, both are tough and fairly water resistant, although I've found both leak right in the seams under heavy rains. We've had up to 14" of snow on them, they sagged alot, but hung in there. We now cover them with blue tarps and they work great. The snow for the most part slides off and have no trouble in strong winds as long as you fasten them down good. We usually leave them up for 6 weeks at a time. The internal frame is the only way to go. They're fast and easy to put up, they weigh about a hundered pounds for a 12x14 or a 16x20 with 5ft walls. One guy can put up the 12x14 but 12x16 would be tough for one man. I would'nt recommend more than 4 guys in the small tent, if more you need the big one. A woodstove will heat either one very good. Both are designed to be packed by horses or mules. Hope this helps. elknut1
www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!
www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!
01-09-2003, 10:09 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rancho Murieta CA USA
Posts: 160
RE: Wall Tents??
Thanks for the words Elknut! I looked at your website..thats quite a photo gallery. Beautiful country you live in there. Looking to move that way my self along towards retirement. Any recommends on tent brands?? Found dozens of them on the net, but hard to wade through all the fluff. I want a tent what's gonna last, but I don't want to pay more'n necessary.
Life begins where the pavement ends!
Life begins where the pavement ends!
01-09-2003, 10:14 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 259
RE: Wall Tents??
I have a 12x14 Montana Canvas Wall Tent with an internal frame. I also have a Cylinder Stove brand woodburning stove. I have set the tent up by myself on numerous occasions. The only time I ever had any difficulty was on a late October hunt in Wyoming where the wind was blowing really hard and it was about 20 degrees. Once the tent is setup it is perfectly stable in the highest winds. I also use the blue tarp trick and find that it keeps snow from accumulating, it just slides rigkt off. Another benefit to the tarp is that it creates an airspace between the roof and the tarp that keeps the tent warmer inside.
I have a friend that has one of the Alaknak tents that is made out of Relite. It is an excellent tent also. The lighter material flaps more in the wind and is noisier. It also doesn't retain heat inside as well as a canvas tent. The biggest advantages to Relite are the lighter weight(packing and setup) and it dries faster when wet.
Here is a pic of my tent setup in Northern Wyoming.
"If you can't change your circumstances then you need to change your perspective."
I have a friend that has one of the Alaknak tents that is made out of Relite. It is an excellent tent also. The lighter material flaps more in the wind and is noisier. It also doesn't retain heat inside as well as a canvas tent. The biggest advantages to Relite are the lighter weight(packing and setup) and it dries faster when wet.
Here is a pic of my tent setup in Northern Wyoming.
"If you can't change your circumstances then you need to change your perspective."
01-09-2003, 10:28 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rancho Murieta CA USA
Posts: 160
RE: Wall Tents??
Thanks RURU. How many folks would you shack up in that 12*14? I'm thinking I want to be able to sleep 3 comfortably (plus their gear) Any tricks up your sleeve for stowing gear inside? I've seen some hanging racks for guns and such that attach to the frame, but I'm betting that some of you folks that have spent time in these things have got some good ideas for economizing on space!
Life begins where the pavement ends!
Life begins where the pavement ends!
01-09-2003, 10:40 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 259
RE: Wall Tents??
I've had three on cots in mine comfortably. My stove sits in the left front corner, so we put two cots along the right sidewall and one along the left wall. We store personal gear and clothing under the cots.
We also setup a table between the cots along the backwall. The table is our kitchen. We use a two burner propane stove. We keep all of the food stored in 120 quart coolers under the table. If you are hunting in grizzly country I wouldn't cook or store food in my sleeping tent. We keep our beverages and our meat in coolers in a shaded spot at least 50 yards from camp. If the spot is shaded and you cover the coolers with a tarp it will stay as cool as your home refrigerator.
Sorry about the typos and the grammer, its late.
Edited by - RuRu12 on 01/09/2003 23:55:09
We also setup a table between the cots along the backwall. The table is our kitchen. We use a two burner propane stove. We keep all of the food stored in 120 quart coolers under the table. If you are hunting in grizzly country I wouldn't cook or store food in my sleeping tent. We keep our beverages and our meat in coolers in a shaded spot at least 50 yards from camp. If the spot is shaded and you cover the coolers with a tarp it will stay as cool as your home refrigerator.
Sorry about the typos and the grammer, its late.
Edited by - RuRu12 on 01/09/2003 23:55:09
01-10-2003, 07:06 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London Ontario Canada
Posts: 21
RE: Wall Tents??
I have a 14x16 canvas tent made by the Colorado canvas company that has served us well for years now. It has been awhile but I think they have an internal frame system that you will need to set it up alone. The one we have can be set up quite nicely by 2 people but I doubt it could be done alone. We sleep 4 people across the back of ours with gear under the bunks. We also use those plastic totes to store our hunting clothes in these we leave outside under the trees. We ysed to set up a little nylon tnet to keep things in too. Where we usually set up is under some big trees but it isn't easy to find a spot for a tent that large even though you can make one with a couple of chainsaws in an hour or two. Another thing the blue tarp does is it helps to stop holes in the tent from embers falling on it.
01-10-2003, 10:01 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Wall Tents??
Dreamin'
You're going to love using a wall tent - makes for a great retreat at the end of a hard cold day - hail, rain, snow, wind, don't matter - nice and warm. Good advice so far.
I'm not familiar with relite (campercloth?) however, I would say that with the canvas I would recommend ponying up the extra $ to have it treated for water, mildew and fire resistance. Minor detail on canvas - if it is important to you make sure you know what color you are getting, as you jump from one canvas type and weight to another sometimes the default color is not white (some times tan).
You absolutely want to use a "rain fly" it protects against UV rays, makes sure the seams don't leak, keeps in the warmth MUCH better, slides the snow off and as said before it keeps the embers from your wood stove from damaging your "core" tent.
Although I have used both traditional and internal frame setups, I currently use an internal steel frame and love it: sturdy, attractive to the eye with all straight lines. The straight lines are important if you decide to add another structure (cooking/eating area)end to end and you want to get the two to seal up against each other. With traditional pole sets the ridgepole will be straight but the eve line and the front and back "V" will have a "droop" factor - still strong - still comfy - but hard to marry two structures together that way and have it be "tight."
HOWEVER, if you are going to be consistantly setting the tent up by yourself then I'd recommend the traditional pole set: with the door zipped shut, stake down the perimiter, open the door, slide in the ridge pole, grab the uprights, crawl in and "wrestle it up" - works okay. I've set up my frame wall tent by myself, but it is not what God intended, it stresses the joints, can bend the tubes if you aren't careful, and would be near impossible in a wind.
"Things to watch for/features to consider" while you are "pricing out" tents:
(1) Get a zip open window in the end opposite the door. That way if the weather turns super warm or someone burns the pancakes or someone screws up with the wood stove and the damper at 3AM and fills the tent with smoke you can open up both ends and air it out.
(2) Since where you pitch your tent when hunting may not be as nice and flat as the "showroom floor" make sure you get at least a 12" sod cloth on your tent where it meets the ground (even if you pay extra) otherwise in places where the ground dips downward you may not have enough sod cloth to "close the cap" and you can get air leaks (and vermin) at ground level that will rob you of your comfort. The tight sealing floor set up for your wall tent is half the trick of a "comfy camp."
(3) A flap over the front zipper door, while not mandatory, is a plus since if you get wet frozen snow plastered on your tent in a store it is nice to have the zipper sheltered.
(4) Speaking of zippers, they can't be too heavy. If you are comparing specs between companies include comparing zipper weights.
In terms of "smart usage of space."
(1) We don't allow sleeping on the ground, too wasteful of space, we make everyone bring a cot and store their gear underneath.
(2) Guns are stored outside in locked vehicles, that way they stay cold and don't sweat.
(3) We camp just off the road and go heavy, so I take a couple of notched 2x4's to support the mid point of the ridgepole (on my internal frame tent) and then we load it up! We hang a clothes rack for clothes on hangers (better than digging under your cot) and is good for drying wet clothes also. We also hang our back packs to get them off the floor and hang lanterns by a rope threaded over the ridgepole which allows you to lower the lantern for lighting or refueling and then raise it for best light distribution (plus they don't get knocked over up there!).
Ultimately, you are going to be faced with "price creep" so if you need to do some trade offs consider ponying up for those things you can't change later. Once you pick the fabric and the treatment of it you are stuck with it (for example). Things that can be added later include: extending the sod cloth (after a drafty first year of use), adding the window, or switching from a traditional poleset (cheap) to an internal frame (expensive).
I bought mine from Davis Tent in Denver but there are lots of them out there, especially in Montana. I have a 16x20. A common standard is 14x16. I know folks that use a pair of 10x14's end to end and wouldn't trade for anything else.
Good luck,
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
You're going to love using a wall tent - makes for a great retreat at the end of a hard cold day - hail, rain, snow, wind, don't matter - nice and warm. Good advice so far.
I'm not familiar with relite (campercloth?) however, I would say that with the canvas I would recommend ponying up the extra $ to have it treated for water, mildew and fire resistance. Minor detail on canvas - if it is important to you make sure you know what color you are getting, as you jump from one canvas type and weight to another sometimes the default color is not white (some times tan).
You absolutely want to use a "rain fly" it protects against UV rays, makes sure the seams don't leak, keeps in the warmth MUCH better, slides the snow off and as said before it keeps the embers from your wood stove from damaging your "core" tent.
Although I have used both traditional and internal frame setups, I currently use an internal steel frame and love it: sturdy, attractive to the eye with all straight lines. The straight lines are important if you decide to add another structure (cooking/eating area)end to end and you want to get the two to seal up against each other. With traditional pole sets the ridgepole will be straight but the eve line and the front and back "V" will have a "droop" factor - still strong - still comfy - but hard to marry two structures together that way and have it be "tight."
HOWEVER, if you are going to be consistantly setting the tent up by yourself then I'd recommend the traditional pole set: with the door zipped shut, stake down the perimiter, open the door, slide in the ridge pole, grab the uprights, crawl in and "wrestle it up" - works okay. I've set up my frame wall tent by myself, but it is not what God intended, it stresses the joints, can bend the tubes if you aren't careful, and would be near impossible in a wind.
"Things to watch for/features to consider" while you are "pricing out" tents:
(1) Get a zip open window in the end opposite the door. That way if the weather turns super warm or someone burns the pancakes or someone screws up with the wood stove and the damper at 3AM and fills the tent with smoke you can open up both ends and air it out.
(2) Since where you pitch your tent when hunting may not be as nice and flat as the "showroom floor" make sure you get at least a 12" sod cloth on your tent where it meets the ground (even if you pay extra) otherwise in places where the ground dips downward you may not have enough sod cloth to "close the cap" and you can get air leaks (and vermin) at ground level that will rob you of your comfort. The tight sealing floor set up for your wall tent is half the trick of a "comfy camp."
(3) A flap over the front zipper door, while not mandatory, is a plus since if you get wet frozen snow plastered on your tent in a store it is nice to have the zipper sheltered.
(4) Speaking of zippers, they can't be too heavy. If you are comparing specs between companies include comparing zipper weights.
In terms of "smart usage of space."
(1) We don't allow sleeping on the ground, too wasteful of space, we make everyone bring a cot and store their gear underneath.
(2) Guns are stored outside in locked vehicles, that way they stay cold and don't sweat.
(3) We camp just off the road and go heavy, so I take a couple of notched 2x4's to support the mid point of the ridgepole (on my internal frame tent) and then we load it up! We hang a clothes rack for clothes on hangers (better than digging under your cot) and is good for drying wet clothes also. We also hang our back packs to get them off the floor and hang lanterns by a rope threaded over the ridgepole which allows you to lower the lantern for lighting or refueling and then raise it for best light distribution (plus they don't get knocked over up there!).
Ultimately, you are going to be faced with "price creep" so if you need to do some trade offs consider ponying up for those things you can't change later. Once you pick the fabric and the treatment of it you are stuck with it (for example). Things that can be added later include: extending the sod cloth (after a drafty first year of use), adding the window, or switching from a traditional poleset (cheap) to an internal frame (expensive).
I bought mine from Davis Tent in Denver but there are lots of them out there, especially in Montana. I have a 16x20. A common standard is 14x16. I know folks that use a pair of 10x14's end to end and wouldn't trade for anything else.
Good luck,
EKM
Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!
01-11-2003, 11:55 AM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: carroll ia
Posts: 8
RE: Wall Tents??
we use a 16x20 canvas with frame from Davis tent and awning out of Denver its a great set up and can be set up alone if needed
http://www.hhh-usa.org
founding member
Hunters Helping Hunters
nafc,nahc,
annuall member
nra
rmef
http://www.hhh-usa.org
founding member
Hunters Helping Hunters
nafc,nahc,
annuall member
nra
rmef
01-12-2003, 10:00 AM
#10
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 612
RE: Wall Tents??
I puchased my first wall tent this year from Davis tent. I was going to go with the internal frame but they talked me into the trad frame that was included in the price of the package i bought. I could have spent more for the internal but didnt. After reading the directions on their site on setting the tent up ihave no problem putting it up by myself. Also with this investement i figured i woud do it right and put inthe options i wanted. After all if im going to spend this kind of money i wanted to get everything i wanted.
I got their 14X16, with a removable floor, put windows in both sides, and added another door on the other end. The main door i added the storm flap that way if the zipper froze i could stick shut the door. I did get their cylinder stove package with the hot water heater. Also purchased the rain flap to help protect the roof from the stove and sun. Had them add 6 ft to have a awning over the front door. I figure with this set up i could us it in warm weather (with the windows and extra doors) and i even added screens to the doors so the bugs wont kick me out (when im using it here in the midwest). I LOVE this tent.
It took my 2 years to save up and decide on where to buy mine. After calling Davis tent and talking with them i was very informed and happy with their products. They do not recommend using the blue tarps on the roofs as this doesnt allow air to get o the roof and condensation buildup may happen. Also they claim you never have to treat their tent with Canvak or any other water treatment. Its supposed to be treated for life with no further work needing to be done.
One thing im happy with is a 14X16 tent that i can put up myself.
If your serious i would call them and talk.
http://www.davistent.com/
"Im not a guide, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently"
I got their 14X16, with a removable floor, put windows in both sides, and added another door on the other end. The main door i added the storm flap that way if the zipper froze i could stick shut the door. I did get their cylinder stove package with the hot water heater. Also purchased the rain flap to help protect the roof from the stove and sun. Had them add 6 ft to have a awning over the front door. I figure with this set up i could us it in warm weather (with the windows and extra doors) and i even added screens to the doors so the bugs wont kick me out (when im using it here in the midwest). I LOVE this tent.
It took my 2 years to save up and decide on where to buy mine. After calling Davis tent and talking with them i was very informed and happy with their products. They do not recommend using the blue tarps on the roofs as this doesnt allow air to get o the roof and condensation buildup may happen. Also they claim you never have to treat their tent with Canvak or any other water treatment. Its supposed to be treated for life with no further work needing to be done.
One thing im happy with is a 14X16 tent that i can put up myself.
If your serious i would call them and talk.
http://www.davistent.com/
"Im not a guide, but i did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently"