Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
12-19-2006, 12:20 PM
#21
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
I haven't read all the posts but every once in a while this argument raises it's ugly head. You pay NOTHING to hunt Federal land. You pay the non-res fee for the tag to hunt an ANIMAL. I suppose you could debate thatpoint but what land you are hunting on has nothing to do with it. You are paying for the management of the animal you are hunting and by law that belongs to the state and although their is some land management that is only a very small piece of it. Most of your tag dollars are going to biologists, LEO's, paper to print tags on, legislation, cost of a draw, cost of maintaining records, division overhead, and this all happens on a state level.
If you want to argue the point that non-res fee's aren't fair thenfine but what land it's on has nothing to do with it. If you argue about what land you are hunting on you simply don't understand the process. Remember your tag fee is to buy a right to harvest a STATE managed animal. Your trespass fee to hunt on Federal Land is free just the same as if you were a resident in that state.
If you want to argue the point that non-res fee's aren't fair thenfine but what land it's on has nothing to do with it. If you argue about what land you are hunting on you simply don't understand the process. Remember your tag fee is to buy a right to harvest a STATE managed animal. Your trespass fee to hunt on Federal Land is free just the same as if you were a resident in that state.
12-19-2006, 12:38 PM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
I do a fair amount of non-resident hunting, and all states seem to beat up on non-residents. In point of fact, Colorado is not as expensive for a non-resident to hunt elk in as some other states. It seems a futile thing to complain about it. It could be worse:we could live in a country where no ordinary person can afford to hunt.
Relative to the hunting public federal lands thing, EKM captured the rationale and legal grounds concisely.
Relative to the hunting public federal lands thing, EKM captured the rationale and legal grounds concisely.
12-19-2006, 04:47 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elizabeth Colo. USA
Posts: 4,413
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
The USO took Arizona to court over this. They tried to push the issue of Interstate commerce and used the animals as commodities paid for by federal taxes. They went on to sue other states over the fact of quotas being illegal. It was all a hunt for the almighty dollar.
But how much money is spent in CO. each year by non-res. hunters? A CRAP LOAD!
12-19-2006, 09:39 PM
#24
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: IOWA/25' UP
Posts: 7,145
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
A guy on another forum posted this statement and I copied it and pasted it; is it true and how do you all feel about it if it is true?
In WY, you are required to hire a guide as a non-resident if you want to hunt in a wilderness area.
Basically it means you have to pay a ton of dough to hunt the good stuff. They claim its because people get lost, but I don;t buy it. Tens of thousands of people hunt, hike, camp in wilderness areas in other states and they seem to get by just fine without a guide. Basically the guide lobby in WY got the law passed so you and I have to hire them to hunt the good stuff versus doing it on our own.
In WY, you are required to hire a guide as a non-resident if you want to hunt in a wilderness area.
Basically it means you have to pay a ton of dough to hunt the good stuff. They claim its because people get lost, but I don;t buy it. Tens of thousands of people hunt, hike, camp in wilderness areas in other states and they seem to get by just fine without a guide. Basically the guide lobby in WY got the law passed so you and I have to hire them to hunt the good stuff versus doing it on our own.
12-20-2006, 07:25 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 2,849
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
I spoke with a WY guide this summer and he was talking about the advantages of going with an outfitter/him instead of doing it on my own. So, from that I would guess that it is legal to go without a guide, but obviously that is not 100% for sure.
12-20-2006, 07:44 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
hardcorehunter: I believe it is true that non-residents are required by law to engage a guide (or hunt with a resident) when hunting in a wilderness area in Wyoming. I also believe that it is widely acknowledged that this law is a transparentgift for the outfitters. I don't like it, but I'm not planning to hunt elk/moose/sheep/mountain goat in a Wyoming wilderness area soon. I go to Wyoming for pronghorn; I go to Colorado for elk. I'm not a trophy hunter, otherwise I might get more upset about this.
12-20-2006, 07:57 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,072
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
HC, with the resident non resident tag issue aside, I do see your point on the guided issue. I do a ton of back country hunting, and know darn well if hunting new ground, I will always have a map, compass and gps. The getting lost issue is negated by knowing how to navigate.
Lets put a twist on this, If a guy lives a few miles over a stateborder from a wilderness area and is in the wilderness all the time. He still needs a guide because he is out of state and lives over the state border. But the guy that lives in a city a couple hundred miles away from the wilderness area can hunt without a guide because he lives in the same state and it is impossible for him to get lost because he is a resident of that state.
As I see it, the issue of herd management falls within the state and all states should have control over the animals. I don't mind paying non resident prices. Which I do ALOT. But by making me pay in one way or another to access federal lands, rubs me the wrong way.
After dealing with the feds here in Idaho over the wolf issue, lets all be glad that the feds are not in charge of the rest of the animals that roam the rockies. I think that is something we can all agree on.
Lets put a twist on this, If a guy lives a few miles over a stateborder from a wilderness area and is in the wilderness all the time. He still needs a guide because he is out of state and lives over the state border. But the guy that lives in a city a couple hundred miles away from the wilderness area can hunt without a guide because he lives in the same state and it is impossible for him to get lost because he is a resident of that state.
As I see it, the issue of herd management falls within the state and all states should have control over the animals. I don't mind paying non resident prices. Which I do ALOT. But by making me pay in one way or another to access federal lands, rubs me the wrong way.
After dealing with the feds here in Idaho over the wolf issue, lets all be glad that the feds are not in charge of the rest of the animals that roam the rockies. I think that is something we can all agree on.
12-20-2006, 11:16 AM
#28
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: IOWA/25' UP
Posts: 7,145
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
ORIGINAL: Elkcrazy8
HC, with the resident non resident tag issue aside, I do see your point on the guided issue. I do a ton of back country hunting, and know darn well if hunting new ground, I will always have a map, compass and gps. The getting lost issue is negated by knowing how to navigate.
Lets put a twist on this, If a guy lives a few miles over a stateborder from a wilderness area and is in the wilderness all the time. He still needs a guide because he is out of state and lives over the state border. But the guy that lives in a city a couple hundred miles away from the wilderness area can hunt without a guide because he lives in the same state and it is impossible for him to get lost because he is a resident of that state.
As I see it, the issue of herd management falls within the state and all states should have control over the animals. I don't mind paying non resident prices. Which I do ALOT. But by making me pay in one way or another to access federal lands, rubs me the wrong way.
After dealing with the feds here in Idaho over the wolf issue, lets all be glad that the feds are not in charge of the rest of the animals that roam the rockies. I think that is something we can all agree on.
HC, with the resident non resident tag issue aside, I do see your point on the guided issue. I do a ton of back country hunting, and know darn well if hunting new ground, I will always have a map, compass and gps. The getting lost issue is negated by knowing how to navigate.
Lets put a twist on this, If a guy lives a few miles over a stateborder from a wilderness area and is in the wilderness all the time. He still needs a guide because he is out of state and lives over the state border. But the guy that lives in a city a couple hundred miles away from the wilderness area can hunt without a guide because he lives in the same state and it is impossible for him to get lost because he is a resident of that state.
As I see it, the issue of herd management falls within the state and all states should have control over the animals. I don't mind paying non resident prices. Which I do ALOT. But by making me pay in one way or another to access federal lands, rubs me the wrong way.
After dealing with the feds here in Idaho over the wolf issue, lets all be glad that the feds are not in charge of the rest of the animals that roam the rockies. I think that is something we can all agree on.
12-20-2006, 11:30 AM
#29
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cheyoming
Posts: 870
RE: Non-residents hunting Federal Public land??
Needing an outfitter to hunt wilderness in Wyoming was handed to the Outfitters Organization by the Wyo. Game & Fish several years ago. This comes to me directly from a G&F employee. Besides, it's widly known that's the reason why non-resident hunters cannot hunt wilderness without a licenced outfitter/guide.
HOWEVER! The G&F did have an ace up their sleeve because at the same time they enacted regulations allowing resident hunters a "temporary guide" status. In other words, you CAN hunt wilderness with a resident licenced hunter.
It has nothing to do with getting lost or chopping your leg off.
But why bother? I have hunted wilderness (always in and part of a Nat'l Forest)and adjacent nat'l forrest land and have never harvested an animal in a wilderness area. Wyoming has millions of acres of public land as well as private lands with public access so why bother with wilderness? You can hike in or go by horseback for that "I'm the only one on the planet remote hunting experience" all over the state without ever going into wilderness areas. I know in Iowa there is precious little land where you can go for days and never see another human, but in Wyoming, that's what we call a back yard!
HOWEVER! The G&F did have an ace up their sleeve because at the same time they enacted regulations allowing resident hunters a "temporary guide" status. In other words, you CAN hunt wilderness with a resident licenced hunter.
It has nothing to do with getting lost or chopping your leg off.
But why bother? I have hunted wilderness (always in and part of a Nat'l Forest)and adjacent nat'l forrest land and have never harvested an animal in a wilderness area. Wyoming has millions of acres of public land as well as private lands with public access so why bother with wilderness? You can hike in or go by horseback for that "I'm the only one on the planet remote hunting experience" all over the state without ever going into wilderness areas. I know in Iowa there is precious little land where you can go for days and never see another human, but in Wyoming, that's what we call a back yard!
