BareBack Jack

The .308 is a what I consider a 300 yd elk rifle.It works well and better than some.It's not my choice but it's his choice.I do know 165 BT nock the crap outta jackrabbits.

Now to the recoil,if eveyone would go out and buy some panties,and a 5lb bag of sugar,put the panties on and stuff the sugar in their back pocket I would call you pantywaists and Candya$$es.The recoil is what you make it,in 20 years of hunting I have never heard the shot or felt the recoil of any gun when hunting.You put your crosshairs on the vitals and pull the trigger.Have you ever tried,have you sat down with a instrutor and had them show you how to shoot heavy magnums?

EKM is right sheltered lives.
BBJ

James B

I agree with part of your post BBJ. The 308 is a 300-350 yard elk cartridge. That is it retains 1500-1600 lbs ME @ 300-350 yards depending on the bullet used. However on the recoil issue, while nobody will probably feel the recoil of a 300 WM while taking a shot or two or three in field, I Guarentee that many will not set at the bench and take a pounding or practice as much as they should with hard kicking rifles. I am sick to death of hearing thay folks who don't like their brains kicked out and their shoulders bruised are candy a$$'s. It could be that they prefer a little less abuse and use a little more hunting skill so they need not shoot 800 yards at an animal.

I don't mind a little debate and I sure think everone is entitled to their opinion. But if it means name calling and making fun of those who don't see ityour way then those opinions are most likely best left out these discussions. Some people don't like recoil and some of those people are amoung the best hunters that I have ever known. If you can accomplish good clean kills with whatever weapon you choose then what more need be asked.

ELKampMaster

Sigh,

**As a clarification, I did not call anyone sugar arses or panty waists.
(After all, too many women competently handle"non-standard" rifles.)

** 45-70 is a lethal elk rifle at beyond 40 yards! (someone is highly misinformed)
However, the line "...they wore em out with everything from blackpowder to 30-30's...." may have some merit.

** That is what cartridge spacing is for, it only takes 3 to take care of everything from prairie dogs to polar bears, yet how many folks haveaslewof essentially the same thing withno breadth--- tunnel vision inmost cases. IMHO, the first 3 long guns should be a 22LR, a 30-06 equivalent, and a 12 gauge, then take it from there but for God's sake spread them out.

** By "progressors" I don't mean age of cartridge (as in the newest wiz-bang), rather size and power --- many hunters never explore beyond smallbores but know all things about the full range of cartridges by "guessing" what it must be like. (Some of my favorite"progressive rifles"are right up there with the 30-06 for age.)

** The same impact with a bigger (and sometimes faster) bullet will "knock them" harder and anchor them betterthat a little one in the same place. (Breadbasket shots, not CNS shots) If you have used a variety of rifles from small bores on up thru mags and big bores, then you know the difference in the hit. I'm not talking the simplistic "dead is dead" drivel; I'm talking anchoring big game. Any neutral 3rd party that witnesses the difference in hits over a series of animals will see the difference.... 'bout the difference between getting tackled by a junior in high school and a NFL linebacker. Yeah, they both tackled you, and you went down.... difference is with the NFL linebacker getting up and running again is much, much more difficult. [& I am NOT talking deer hunying here.]

** Once the rifle is sighted in, there is little benefit to "blasting away at the bench" IMHO it doesn't make you a better hunter. Some folks may hunt out of bench blinds; however, I have not found any (shooting) benches set up out inelk country. The key is to get out and practice in field positions whichtend to not be as abusive as the bench AND much morebeneficial for preparingfor real deal hunting.

** Transference. You don't have to "blast away" endlessly at the bench or in field practice solely with the rifle you are going to hunt with. With scopes sighted in the same (200 yards in my case [even on the Big Bore types]) the bullets fly pretty much down the same string (especially if you're not going out a long ways). On something the size of an elk, the variance in trajectory is minor compared to the target area. You can have a fun shooting session with a 22LR, a varmit rifle, a cross over rifle, a regular mag, a big bore, and a 12 gauge and some clay pigeons. IMHO, you are sharpening your shooting skills across the board.Big game guidestend to love bird hunters, they can take a shot without taking all day and put it on the money -- now.

It is like"cross training" and it all helps to sharpen you up for the upcoming season and not just for a niche. You might go thru 250 to 300 rounds total in the day, perhaps only 10 with the mag you will use for elk (especially if you had a GOOD 10 rounds). I'll take this well rounded hunter over the one that shoots 30 rounds of "standard caliber elk cartridge Xonly".IMHO the idea of "blasting away boxes of ammo"all with one gun comes largely from the "beware of a man with only one rifle" BS. Show me a man with one rifle and in most cases IMHO he is either very young and/ordon't go far and/or he don't do much variety of rifle hunting.

I'll stand by what I said earlier....

BareBack Jack

Hey James,I just wanted to get under everyones skin.
No please everyone take my reference to Pantywaites and candya$$es as tounge and cheek joking.

I shoot magnums,and cross over rifles for elk,I just like to see the arguments.
BBJ