Wolf news
11-05-2005, 11:47 PM
#61
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Wolf news
ORIGINAL: racowboy
Brutal, You admit the fact that the bear are killing 80% of our elk calf crop and argue the fact of introducing more predators. You just really like to argue, huh? I hope you enjoyed the big bulls you took. Do you hunt the same season that I do or the Native American season where you can wait till the snow pushes them down to the highway and you really don't have to go out in the woods? The sadest part of this deal is the fact that our children may not have the opportunity to even see elk with the way we are doing things. I suppose that being a scientific minded person, you also back the scientific study in the Elk City area where they are spending a couple million to see if bears really do eat elk calves, whether they do this as a natural instinct or if it is a learned thing.. My thoughts are that if Idaho's bioligists don't already know that, they should all be fired.
Brutal, You admit the fact that the bear are killing 80% of our elk calf crop and argue the fact of introducing more predators. You just really like to argue, huh? I hope you enjoyed the big bulls you took. Do you hunt the same season that I do or the Native American season where you can wait till the snow pushes them down to the highway and you really don't have to go out in the woods? The sadest part of this deal is the fact that our children may not have the opportunity to even see elk with the way we are doing things. I suppose that being a scientific minded person, you also back the scientific study in the Elk City area where they are spending a couple million to see if bears really do eat elk calves, whether they do this as a natural instinct or if it is a learned thing.. My thoughts are that if Idaho's bioligists don't already know that, they should all be fired.
What I'm trying to say is that if the habitat was as it should be, we wouldn't be having the predator problems we are having. I'm by no means trying to say that the wolf reintroduction had a positive effect, but I'm also not convinced that wolves are soley to blame.It was a decision that was made and it can't be taken back.
As is often the case, this isn't a black and white issue, there are numerous factors involved in the decline and the blame cannot be pinned only onpredators, though that is easier to handle than admitting that the habitat is lacking due to our changing land use patterns.
As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to respond to your implied insults. There is no need.
11-06-2005, 09:39 PM
#64
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hells Canyon
Posts: 130
RE: Wolf news
Actually it would have been fine to have left the name calling and such posted so everyone could see who they are dealing with. I have a valid education on our elk in this area. I didn't however get it by sitting in a classroom. I've listened intently to honest old people who are mostly gone now, spent months on horseback and on foot miles into our wilderness areas. I look at our elk like ranchers would their cattle and as a way for a poor man to keep meat on the table for his family. Our Lochsaw herd has had a rough few years. If we have a bad winter and throw in some wolves who are staying on top of the snow when the elk are falling through I don't know if our herd will recover. I've put much effort into thinning the lion and bear population in hopes of helping our herd, but now that the wolves have been thrown into the works it seems feeble. I've hunted with five great dogs now that the wolves have killed, a couple of which were pulled apart and spread out over a couple hundred yards. I know the Beale family that have lost so many cattle now. I have and old friend, who after the reintroduction of the wolves said he is ready to die now, doesn't understand this stupid place anymore. Talked to a Canadian truck driver a couple months back who said "I understand you got wolves from us and planted them down here? What, are you frig'n nuts?" And I know some people who have jobs created because of the reintroduction who think they are just wonderful. I like the elk. I figure that eventually we will learn our lesson all over again and hopefully some good decisions will be made at that time.
11-06-2005, 10:08 PM
#65
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Wolf news
ORIGINAL: racowboy
Actually it would have been fine to have left the name calling and such posted so everyone could see who they are dealing with.
Actually it would have been fine to have left the name calling and such posted so everyone could see who they are dealing with.
I'm just a terrible, bad, evil person since I don't share your viewpoint. Very mature...
Well I'm glad you have learned everything there is to learnby riding your horse and talking to people who have such a narrow view of the issue. Heck I consult Canadian truck drivers all the time, they know their stuff!!
No one will respect your viewpoint when you startslinging mud. It would help you outto remember that in the future.
11-06-2005, 11:55 PM
#66
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Hells Canyon
Posts: 130
RE: Wolf news
That Canadian truck driver seemed like a pretty decent sort of a guy and I figure the Canadians have more first hand experience with the wolves than we do. That is where we got the dang things. Now, should I not trust his word because he drives a truck or because he's Canadian? I suppose you'll be re-editting your statement again?
11-07-2005, 09:16 AM
#67
Typical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 694
RE: Wolf news
Thanks for stickin up for us Canucks racowboy, its always open season on us down here. I think the limit is two. What could Canucks possably know about anything.....especially wolves? It is a little know fact that mostof our truck drivers are actually rocket scientists in their spare time.
It may be worth remembering that no matter where you are in the USA, including Alaska, there is always a Canadian living upstream.
Happy Hunting
It may be worth remembering that no matter where you are in the USA, including Alaska, there is always a Canadian living upstream.
Happy Hunting
11-07-2005, 11:46 AM
#68
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: Wolf news
Guys/gals,
It is pointless to argue with brutal. I've seen his type before. He's got a high priced education so he's smarter than everyone else. Anyone who actually works for a living is and idiot and has no knowledge to impart on him because he already knows it all. Remember he went to college
He's proven his superiorityby quoting"peer reviewed" scientific proof. We commoners are just idiots.
PS I will not be editing this post because I want everyone to see what I said when I was pissed.
It is pointless to argue with brutal. I've seen his type before. He's got a high priced education so he's smarter than everyone else. Anyone who actually works for a living is and idiot and has no knowledge to impart on him because he already knows it all. Remember he went to college
He's proven his superiorityby quoting"peer reviewed" scientific proof. We commoners are just idiots.PS I will not be editing this post because I want everyone to see what I said when I was pissed.
11-07-2005, 07:56 PM
#69
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: Wolf news
This debate will rage on for years., If you think for one minute, delisting and giveing the state management of the wolf will lead to hunting you are full of $hit and dreams! Wisc, Mn, and Mich, have had wolves for 40 years and still no hunting. You will be able to hunt grizzly before the wolf. Bottom line, you can have lots of preditors or lots of game, but you can not have and will not have lots of both. Why else do they resort to arial gunning in Alaska to try and control them.I don't want the state of Wyoming to have control, you won't be able to hunt them and it will only cost theG&F more money thatthey don't have. Just like the grizzly bear. I see wolves every fall and winter with in 40 miles of where I live. We seen 5 the night before elk season and wolf tracks every day.
The jury is still out on the whole issue, this is 2005 not 1805 and times have changed. Wyoming law was violated when the wolves were released as they were already here and the Canadian Grey wolf is not native. Wyoming state law, on the books, clearly states, no none native wildlife spiecies can be introduced into the state of Wyoming, period! I aksed the area manager of the G&Fif it is illegal to introduce Canadian moose, Roosevelt elk, or Tule elk into Wyoming, he said, I quote, absolutely yes. It violates state law, I then asked what about those &ucking wolves. He shrugged his shoulders and said it is a technicality and the feds backed the program! But that I had a point.
The jury is still out on the whole issue, this is 2005 not 1805 and times have changed. Wyoming law was violated when the wolves were released as they were already here and the Canadian Grey wolf is not native. Wyoming state law, on the books, clearly states, no none native wildlife spiecies can be introduced into the state of Wyoming, period! I aksed the area manager of the G&Fif it is illegal to introduce Canadian moose, Roosevelt elk, or Tule elk into Wyoming, he said, I quote, absolutely yes. It violates state law, I then asked what about those &ucking wolves. He shrugged his shoulders and said it is a technicality and the feds backed the program! But that I had a point.
11-08-2005, 05:05 PM
#70
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Wolf news
It's ok I understand. When your argument falls shortyou resort to attacking the character of the opposition in hopes of discrediting them that way. Unfortunately, this is a common tactic usually as a last resort and it has no basis in logic. It can score you some points with people already on your side of the issue but it damages your own credibility and pushes away those you wish to convince with your arguement.