60 minutes
06-05-2005, 05:03 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 779
60 minutes
Sitting around watching 60 minutes, its about grizzlys going into peoples yards looking for snacks, and about all the hikers and campers that get attacked each year. Hope those tree hugging PETAers are watching.
06-05-2005, 05:11 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 579
RE: 60 minutes
The grizzly is the reason I picked the Thorofare area to hunt elk this year. Some may think I'm crazy but to me the grizzly is the symbol of everything that is wild. An elk hunt in an area where I'm not the top predator in the woods, is an adrenaline rush just thinking about it. I have the days counted down. I wish their were more areas like this! Sometimes we humans need a little humility in our lives.
06-05-2005, 05:56 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 779
RE: 60 minutes
No offense hunter, but I'm just wondering if i'm missing something because i don't see what that has to do with the origional post. Don't take this the wrong way, i enjoyed reading your post, like i said just want to make sure i'm not missing anything.
06-05-2005, 06:07 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: 60 minutes
This was in the Casper paper today. They are becoming a pain in the butt. We had to remove our bear bait last year becuase of a grizzly that was visiting it. We had baited that same drainage for 8 years. They like the wolf need to be delisted and have some fear of man! The last time I hunted the Thorofare, 1998 we used an electric fence around the camp. Never had any trouble, actually you stand a better chance of being struck by lighting! A guy I work with was in Outdoorlife a few years back in a story about bear attacks. He to was in the Thorofare when his hunting companion attacked and bitten by a bear, they ended up shooting the sow and all three two year old cubs after being attacked.
Living with grizzlies
By WHITNEY ROYSTER
Star-Tribune environmental reporter Sunday, June 05, 2005
CODY -- For Michelle Sauerwein, living in grizzly bear country has changed in the last five years.
The Wapiti resident has seen bears trapped on her front lawn, and she spent at least four hours on her barn roof to avoid a grizzly sow with cubs. Sauerwein did this as her infant slept in the main house, with no supervision.
"Everything is more complicated, to hold this balance of living in a happy medium with these bears," she said.
Sauerwein, and about 15 other residents of Wapiti and rural Park County, all had similar messages to send to state legislators and county commissioners gathered here last week for a tour of grizzly bear country.
The gathering, organized by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, was largely an educational tour to show the positives and negatives facing the state once the grizzly is removed from the threatened species list -- a move anticipated as early as next year.
Sauerwein said her husband grew up in the area living with grizzlies, and the last five years -- drought years -- have "drastically affected how we can live together in balance with grizzlies."
Bears have come onto her property to get at fruit trees, which she now tends to by raking up dropped fruit, and looking for other food.
"Rightfully, I feel when that sow trapped me on the barn roof, I should have shot her," she said, adding that as a tax-paying landowner she should have some rights.
The grizzly was first listed as threatened in 1975, when numbers in the Yellowstone area dwindled to about 200 bears. Since, federal protection has allowed the grizzly to recover to an estimated 500 to 600 bears in the area.
Becky Aus, supervisor of the Shoshone National Forest, said the Forest Service, Wyoming Game and Fish Department and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service all agree the bear should be delisted.
But before that happens, states must have adequate management plans to ensure the bear does not become endangered again. Wyoming developed a draft plan and is now revising it.
Still, Wapiti residents said they feel they are being squeezed by the protections afforded the grizzly.
Robyn Asherman bought two Karelian bear dogs to protect her home and family.
The dogs are high-maintenance -- requiring regular walks, always on a leash, because they will kill other dogs or animals -- but they will chase a bear out of the property, Asherman said.
"Once (bears) have one experience with our dogs, they typically go to the road or the creek" to avoid the property again, she said.
Asherman now only goes for walks with her dogs, with bear spray, and with a gun.
"We can't even go down to the creek without the dogs," she said. "You just have to be smart living here."
Problems from outside
Most residents agreed adjustments were needed to live in bear country -- such as storing food and garbage in bear-proof containers -- and most said they were happy to make the accommodations knowing their proximity to Yellowstone National Park and prime bear habitat.
But trouble comes from tourists and new residents, they say, who don't know the impact that feeding bears has on year-round residents trying to cohabitate with the animals.
"The interface between people and bears is getting bigger because people are moving in," Pearre Williams of Wapiti said. "We know what to expect from bears. But what can we expect from people? There seems to be no willingness to force good bear behavior on people."
Williams suggested to legislators they consider making it a crime to feed bears.
The state Legislature has rejected proposals to make private feeding wildlife a crime, and rejected a measure that would allow counties to pass no-feeding laws. Teton County is the only county with a law banning wildlife feeding.
Williams said many people are trying to be responsible and not encourage bears to come into subdivisions, but people who either refuse or are ignorant of the problems make life dangerous for everyone else.
Seeking balance
Lee Livingston questioned how many grizzlies can actually live in the area.
"What has to happen before we back off numbers?" he asked, saying children could get hurt by bears being pushed out of the ecosystem looking for habitat. "How far does this coexistence need to go? We need to find some way of getting to that magic number."
Wyoming is eyeing 500 grizzlies as the sustainable number.
Curt Bales, who lives on the South Fork, said grizzlies have lost their fear of humans, and hunting should put that fear back.
He also said problem bears should not be given "two chances," and should be immediately removed from the population when they cause problems.
"I know that seems harsh, but once they do something, I find they're going to do it again," he said.
Others have said hunting bears will not increase their fear of humans. But Wapiti residents say mothers will teach cubs to stay away from humans, and away from the sound of gunshots.
For now, though, residents are trying to keep homes and ranches as unattractive to bears as possible.
"They have no fear," Sauerwein said. "We have to come up with a balance where they respect us and we them."
Living with grizzlies
By WHITNEY ROYSTER
Star-Tribune environmental reporter Sunday, June 05, 2005
CODY -- For Michelle Sauerwein, living in grizzly bear country has changed in the last five years.
The Wapiti resident has seen bears trapped on her front lawn, and she spent at least four hours on her barn roof to avoid a grizzly sow with cubs. Sauerwein did this as her infant slept in the main house, with no supervision.
"Everything is more complicated, to hold this balance of living in a happy medium with these bears," she said.
Sauerwein, and about 15 other residents of Wapiti and rural Park County, all had similar messages to send to state legislators and county commissioners gathered here last week for a tour of grizzly bear country.
The gathering, organized by the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, was largely an educational tour to show the positives and negatives facing the state once the grizzly is removed from the threatened species list -- a move anticipated as early as next year.
Sauerwein said her husband grew up in the area living with grizzlies, and the last five years -- drought years -- have "drastically affected how we can live together in balance with grizzlies."
Bears have come onto her property to get at fruit trees, which she now tends to by raking up dropped fruit, and looking for other food.
"Rightfully, I feel when that sow trapped me on the barn roof, I should have shot her," she said, adding that as a tax-paying landowner she should have some rights.
The grizzly was first listed as threatened in 1975, when numbers in the Yellowstone area dwindled to about 200 bears. Since, federal protection has allowed the grizzly to recover to an estimated 500 to 600 bears in the area.
Becky Aus, supervisor of the Shoshone National Forest, said the Forest Service, Wyoming Game and Fish Department and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service all agree the bear should be delisted.
But before that happens, states must have adequate management plans to ensure the bear does not become endangered again. Wyoming developed a draft plan and is now revising it.
Still, Wapiti residents said they feel they are being squeezed by the protections afforded the grizzly.
Robyn Asherman bought two Karelian bear dogs to protect her home and family.
The dogs are high-maintenance -- requiring regular walks, always on a leash, because they will kill other dogs or animals -- but they will chase a bear out of the property, Asherman said.
"Once (bears) have one experience with our dogs, they typically go to the road or the creek" to avoid the property again, she said.
Asherman now only goes for walks with her dogs, with bear spray, and with a gun.
"We can't even go down to the creek without the dogs," she said. "You just have to be smart living here."
Problems from outside
Most residents agreed adjustments were needed to live in bear country -- such as storing food and garbage in bear-proof containers -- and most said they were happy to make the accommodations knowing their proximity to Yellowstone National Park and prime bear habitat.
But trouble comes from tourists and new residents, they say, who don't know the impact that feeding bears has on year-round residents trying to cohabitate with the animals.
"The interface between people and bears is getting bigger because people are moving in," Pearre Williams of Wapiti said. "We know what to expect from bears. But what can we expect from people? There seems to be no willingness to force good bear behavior on people."
Williams suggested to legislators they consider making it a crime to feed bears.
The state Legislature has rejected proposals to make private feeding wildlife a crime, and rejected a measure that would allow counties to pass no-feeding laws. Teton County is the only county with a law banning wildlife feeding.
Williams said many people are trying to be responsible and not encourage bears to come into subdivisions, but people who either refuse or are ignorant of the problems make life dangerous for everyone else.
Seeking balance
Lee Livingston questioned how many grizzlies can actually live in the area.
"What has to happen before we back off numbers?" he asked, saying children could get hurt by bears being pushed out of the ecosystem looking for habitat. "How far does this coexistence need to go? We need to find some way of getting to that magic number."
Wyoming is eyeing 500 grizzlies as the sustainable number.
Curt Bales, who lives on the South Fork, said grizzlies have lost their fear of humans, and hunting should put that fear back.
He also said problem bears should not be given "two chances," and should be immediately removed from the population when they cause problems.
"I know that seems harsh, but once they do something, I find they're going to do it again," he said.
Others have said hunting bears will not increase their fear of humans. But Wapiti residents say mothers will teach cubs to stay away from humans, and away from the sound of gunshots.
For now, though, residents are trying to keep homes and ranches as unattractive to bears as possible.
"They have no fear," Sauerwein said. "We have to come up with a balance where they respect us and we them."
06-05-2005, 06:10 PM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 579
RE: 60 minutes
No offense take! I get carried away with the notion of being in grizzly country again and sometimes fly off on a tangent. After I read your post I sat down and watched the 60 minutes show. It's the same old controversy of man against nature. "I just built this dream home and now we have bears in our backyard". If we are going to preserve a few areas for creatures like these to survive, then we need to have buffer zones to allow some movement of the population. Bears are opportunistic, and "if we build it they will come"!
06-05-2005, 06:17 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: 60 minutes
There are more bears than places for them. When the last season was held in Wy there were apporximately 300 bears and the numbers were sustained. Now some estimates are at or above 700 and still no season. The USF&W said way back, when they were put on the endangerd list, that when they hit 400 bears delisting would take place, well guess what? No hunting yet! The feds and G&F have tried to expand the recovery zone several times, all met with objection from our county goverments and outdoor groups. This is 2005 not 1805 and times have changed. Every time the recovery zone is moved restrictions take place and we lose access.
06-05-2005, 06:25 PM
#7
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 579
RE: 60 minutes
I think the time has come to allow the states to manage the grizzly as a huntable population. I'm not sure that it would put the "fear of man" in them as some people think but hunting is the best way to control a population.
06-05-2005, 06:31 PM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: 60 minutes
In places like Canada and Alaska where hunting is allowed they sure don't have the problems that Wyoming and Montana have. Here it is quite common to see grizzlys in the middle of the day right out in the open. My son has video of 9 grizzlys, in one day, in the same alpine drainage, while sheep hunting here in Wyoming. And when I hunted Canada, in B.C. and NWT, you rarely seen a bear and about all you did see were tracks.
06-05-2005, 07:10 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crescent Valley, NV
Posts: 2,271
RE: 60 minutes
I just finished watching that too. That amazes me that bears can be so tame!!! I think that there needs to be something done, starting with the delisting, and then limited hunting, and better laws regarding when you can kill one in self defense.