rather_be_huntin

Well I'm assuming you're talking hunting and not target shooting because they are two entirely different things.

Let's say I'm shooting my trusty ole .308 and I'm getting 3 inch groups at 300 yds with it. Then I step up to a .300 winnie mag and now I'm getting 4.5 inch groups at 300 yds. Sure I've lost a little but from a hunting perspective I haven't lost a thing.

So to answer your question as long as what ever range I'm shooting at I have complete confidence I can hit the vital area in my opinion I've lost nothing.

Wolf killer

John B 45, Put down the crack pipe & step away from the computer. I am glad you picked me for an example.
The scenerio you present gives no advantage to the 25-06. First problem I see is you want to drag a camera man along on a trophy bull hunt. Have him stay in camp & head the oppisite direction as you in the morning. He can film bulls & cows a few miles away from where you are hunting. You can take him with you after you kill a bull & get some good fotage of the dead bull. Take your camera man out & stage several scenes after you have killed your bull. This will take at least one extra day? Make it look like you are hunting. Change your clothes a few times. People will think you are filming this for several days while you are hunting. A few days in the editing room & you have a hunting show with you killing your trophy bull on it.

Lets address the rifle probelm. Your load of choice for the 25-06 uses a Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet. This is a paper or varmit bullet. Your load of choice has a muzzle velocity of 3100-f.p.s. this delivers less than 1300-foot pounds of energy @ 400-yards.
I would work up a load with a premium bullet & put this rifle back in the safe. The 25-06 is a deer rifle not a elk rifle.

The 375-R.U.M. with a 260-grain Accubond is a good quality bullet that will stay together with any shot at any angle. The 375 with a muzzle velocity of 3100-f.p.s. has about 3300-foot pounds of energy @ 400-yards.

The 375 has more energy at 400-yards than the 25-06 has at the muzzle. The 25-06 at the muzzle will deliver about 2500-foot pounds of energy.

The groups you listed were no better with the 25-06 than the 375-R.U.M. I am going to need a solid rest at 400-yards with any rifle regardless of caliber. In fact 400-yards is too far for me to shoot unless everything is perfect. If I had the time & cover to work with? I would close the distance to 300-yards or less. Closer is better. Closer gives me less chance for error regardless of rifle or caliber.

If this hunt was for real & I had to pick my gun right now? I would take my 300-win mag loaded with 200-grain Nosler Partitions. I have killed several elk with this rifle. I know what this rifle can & will do. This rifle has been at my side for close to 20-years. Give me a few years with the 375-R.U.M. & I might pick it over the 300-win mag?

The 375-R.U.M. is more of a toy for me. I know I will never need the extra power the 375 offers. I wanted to play with a big mid-bore for a few years. When I get tired of the extra recoil I will sell it.
I can promise you one thing. I will not take up elk hunting with my 25-06.

BareBack Jack

ManBoy,
I lost that bull not cause of poor shoot'in or tracking skills,I lost that bull for lack of common sense and not picking the right tool for the job.
Nobody takes a .243 or .223 and turn it into a 400 yds elk rifle,(except you)and expects great results.They are percison tools,but not for what I explain in my expirience was to show a great persicion tool is not always the best.It's like using a scalpul for a hunting knife it works but not what is was in tended for.

I didn't ask you for your expertice,or your glasses so go rattle someone elses zipper.
BBJ

rather_be_huntin

I went back and read all of the posts. First I want to say whatever cartridge you decide to use you should "pass" the accuracy test. Let's say you use the pie plate method. A 12" pie plate. If you can't hit that pie plate nearly every shot, you shouldn't be hunting at all with that rifle. That should be a given in cartridge discussion. Nobody should be toting a rifle around that mountains that they can't hit the broad side of a barn with. But just like using a cannon as a crutch for poor shooting isn't ethical, using an inadequate cartridge as a crutch for not learning to shoot a larger cartridge isn't ethical.

Just about anyone out there over 110 lbs can learn to shoot a 30-06 if it's set up right for that person. IT TAKES PRACTICE!!! If you have a flinch then there are techniques to get rid of it. And again the rifle needs to be set up right for who ever is shooting it. Everything from the butt-pad to the stock to making sure you've got the right bullets that fly well out of that barrel. I've had more than one friend be "afraid" or complain of inacurracy of a larger cartridge only to find they needed a good butt-pad, practice, or use different bullets to fix the problem.

ShatoDavis

I won't sacrifice acuracy for any cartridge. Now that needs to be qualified. I have a cooper 22-250 that will shoot 1/4 MOA groups consistantly. I've even shot zero groups with it at 100 yards. I'm confident with it on prairie dogs out to 500 yards. Now, are my hunting rifles that accurate? No, but all my weapons are sub 1 MOA guns. Thats my criteria. Its a personal criteria, and may be overkill in some peoples eyes. If any of my guns will not shoot under 2" at 200 yards off a bench I trade them.

The true test thought is shooting them with out a bench. I spend enough time shooting that my techniques are solid. I determine how far I can shoot confidently with my weapons prior to the hunt. Another factor in that determination is the position being shot the type of rest or lack there of. For example, I'm confident with my 338 win out to 350 yards if I'm prone or sitting with a rest (tree or backpack to brace against). Off hand 200 yards is the limit. So the answer to your question is: None! If a cartridge is inaccurate I won't shoot it. If a weapon has more recoil than I can shoot accurately then I pass on it. I believe in taking as much power as you can shoot well. As I get older my tolerance for recoil may subside. It may be that If I want to hunt elk I must use a smaller weapon. I'm not concerned with that because I know that a well placed shot from a number of "lighter" cartridges are sufficient to harvest an elk. I personally think that the 338 is a man among boys when we talk about elk cartridges though.

manboy

BBJ, so u are saying u hit that elk wrong becuase of the gun?

thats like blaming guns for crime! u pulled the trigger, the bullet hit where it was aimed!and u can blame the caliber all u want , but it had nothing to do with where the shot was placed! thats all you!

do you smell that?[:'(]

SpyroAndes

So the rifles are set up the same and are capable of roughly the same accuracy.

Actually, you already stated that the precision... or accuracy of these rifles was similar... so now why the difference in precision?

I could careless what the cartridg is... if the rifles are the same, except for chambering, and the method is the same and the shot is the same...

Exactly why would your need less time and could get by with a worse rest w/ the 25-06?

I fail to see the logic that you used to formulate your opinion...

I must be missing something here...

so let me rehash this... hypothetically speaking...

Rifle #1 (25-06)
----------------------------------------
Rem 700 Action (Reworked)
Jewel Trigger
Lilja Barrell (26" Heavy Sporter)
McMillan A3 Stock
Leupold 4.5-14 LPS W/ BDC
Bipod


Rifle #2 (375 RUM)
---------------------------------------
Rem 700 Action (reworked)
Jewel Trigger
Lilja Barrell (26" Heavy Sporter)
McMillan A3 Stock
Leupod 4.5-14 LPS W/ BDC
Bipod

Both Rifle #1 and Rifle #2 check in at 10.5 pounds.

Both Rifle #1 and Rifle #2 have similar accuracy.

Rifle #2 has more energy at 400 yards than Rifle #1 has at the muzzle.

You pick Rifle #1 because it take you less time to set up the shot and is more accurate?

Explain Please...

AlaskaMagnum

This question is akin to asking your boss "Well, do you want the work done fast or accurate"? Obviously the correct answer is there must be a balance of both. Everything must have it's limits. For me, I shoot out to 300 yards -- and no further. I can shoot my .338 RUM and be accurate to place a bullet in the kill zone consistently to this distance. Could I win a 1000 yard competition -- NO!

Having just been back from a Kodiak bear hunt (unsuccessful), I can assure you, a big Kodiak brownie is bigger than you imagine. I wear size 11 boots and put both feet in one track and still had room to spare, and that was a SOW!

There comes a point when hunting certain animals that more power is not only prudent, it may save your life, not to mention needless suffering of an animal. So...could a .243 kill a grizzly, sure it could! The only question is how long will it take to die and how fast can you run?

huntnmuleys

a .270 or 30-06 will both adequately take down elk at 300 yards. both can be used for moose. neither kick all that hard, making them easy to shoot.
theres no reason to kill yourself needlessly with bigger bores, if thats not your cup of tea.
that being said, i myself have a .270, and at 300 yards i would have to have that nice broadside shot on an elk to feel comfortable. i might have to exercise some patience with that gun, but i wouldnt hesitate to use it

brad

oldelkhunter

Manboy are you not capable of posting something without insulting anyone here? BTW dude your spelling and grammar leaves a lot to be desired makes me grit my teeth as a matter of fact can you please work on that as well ?