View Poll Results: Should I clean my bore??
Clean it! The verdict is still out on BH209's corrosiveness or lack thereof!
8
88.89%
Don't clean it, your POI is dead on!!
1
11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll
Range Report - My guns likes it dirty...not too fond of Barnes!
10-16-2010, 07:02 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,473
Range Report - My guns likes it dirty...not too fond of Barnes!
Okay, I know a poll is a little strange to have in a range report, but I'd really like your vote AFTER reading the range report to help me decide what to do.
Constants: T/C Omega, Leupold Ultimate Slam 3-9x40 mounted on Game Reaper low mount, BH209 powder, CCI 209M primers, 100 yard range.
Condition of gun prior to first shot was that I had run a wet patch of CLP (Gunzilla) down the bore last week and forgot to wipe it out before shooting today. Had not finished zeroing with my chosen poison last week because I ran out of bullets, Harvester Scorpion 260 gr in crushed rib black sabot. Last shot previous week was two inches high and two inches left after approx 35 shots with no swabbing. Fired two primers to foul the clean barrel before beginning today. Never swabbed the barrel throughout the session.
Field conditions were between 50-65 degrees, dry and windy. Had good luck in waiting for wind to calm before firing.
Started with 80 gr BH209 and the Scorpions. As you can see, the first shot was a bullseye (large center target), and I was quite excited to see it after the smoke cleared. The excitement passed as shot two was way left and down. Shots 3-5 were anywhere from just over an inch to 2.5 inches from the first shot.
Next was 100 gr BH209 and 250 gr Barnes TEZs, aiming toward the lower right target (same paper). I had horrible luck with this bullet/sabot combination last week, but another member got good groups with his Triumph using 100 gr BH209, so I decided to try it. Shots 1 & 3 were 2.5 inches apart, and shot 2 didn't even hit the paper.
Next target I bumped the Scorpion load up to 90 gr BH209, and lowered the Barnes TEZ load to 90, but replaced the TEZ sabots with the Harvester black crushed rib. Grouping was better for the Barnes, and a little worse for the Scorpions.
Suddenly, everything changed. The target below has two black POAs. The lower one was fired at FIRST. Using the SAME load for the Scorpions (90 gr), the group suddenly shrank drastically. In 3 shots, the closest two holes were 0.5" and the farthest were 1.5".
Being an IDIOT, and knowing that my Leopold scope's adjustment mechanisms are pieces of CRAP, I couldn't leave well enough alone. Since I wasn't QUITE touching my POA, I decided to go ahead and move the crosshairs just a tiny bit. I moved two clicks up and one click right. Well, the next shot (at POA 2, top of sheet) ended up 2 inches high and 2 inches LEFT. All my adjustments were less than 2 clicks at a time, and I got lucky and nicked my POA on the 6th shot. I left the scope alone and fired another, again nicking my POA. I wanted to take a 3rd shot, but I was already running late for something so I had to pack it in.
I am not sure why my groups suddenly shrank. In the prior week's range session, I had a 1 MOA group at 100 yards with the Scorpions, which is why I chose them to zero the scope. But when I hit that small group, it was after I had fired at least 10 or 11 shots of other bullets/sabots in an attempt to find what grouped the best.
So, my poll question is, should I clean my barrel, or not? I have already cleaned the breach plug, but I want to leave the bore alone. BH209 is supposed to be noncorrosive and non-hydroscopic. It was a dry day today, and I did have that layer of CLP on the bore, quite by accident, before shooting. What would you do?
And since they were part of my range session, I'll include two other small and undetailed reports.
The first is my bolt action slug gun, the Marlin 512 Slugmaster. Using open sights at 100 yards, I'm very satisfied with the group. I'm sure it would get a lot smaller if scoped. And I swear, the trigger on that thing is probably 12 pounds. No joke!
The second is my M1A Scout. I'll spare you the details of the problem I am experiencing (currently under investigation over at the M14 forum!), but the first 3-shot group ain't half bad, especially for Winchester white-box FMJ ball ammo (nutin' fancy there)! Aimpoint red dot sight (no magnification) at 100 yards.
Constants: T/C Omega, Leupold Ultimate Slam 3-9x40 mounted on Game Reaper low mount, BH209 powder, CCI 209M primers, 100 yard range.
Condition of gun prior to first shot was that I had run a wet patch of CLP (Gunzilla) down the bore last week and forgot to wipe it out before shooting today. Had not finished zeroing with my chosen poison last week because I ran out of bullets, Harvester Scorpion 260 gr in crushed rib black sabot. Last shot previous week was two inches high and two inches left after approx 35 shots with no swabbing. Fired two primers to foul the clean barrel before beginning today. Never swabbed the barrel throughout the session.
Field conditions were between 50-65 degrees, dry and windy. Had good luck in waiting for wind to calm before firing.
Started with 80 gr BH209 and the Scorpions. As you can see, the first shot was a bullseye (large center target), and I was quite excited to see it after the smoke cleared. The excitement passed as shot two was way left and down. Shots 3-5 were anywhere from just over an inch to 2.5 inches from the first shot.
Next was 100 gr BH209 and 250 gr Barnes TEZs, aiming toward the lower right target (same paper). I had horrible luck with this bullet/sabot combination last week, but another member got good groups with his Triumph using 100 gr BH209, so I decided to try it. Shots 1 & 3 were 2.5 inches apart, and shot 2 didn't even hit the paper.
Next target I bumped the Scorpion load up to 90 gr BH209, and lowered the Barnes TEZ load to 90, but replaced the TEZ sabots with the Harvester black crushed rib. Grouping was better for the Barnes, and a little worse for the Scorpions.
Suddenly, everything changed. The target below has two black POAs. The lower one was fired at FIRST. Using the SAME load for the Scorpions (90 gr), the group suddenly shrank drastically. In 3 shots, the closest two holes were 0.5" and the farthest were 1.5".
Being an IDIOT, and knowing that my Leopold scope's adjustment mechanisms are pieces of CRAP, I couldn't leave well enough alone. Since I wasn't QUITE touching my POA, I decided to go ahead and move the crosshairs just a tiny bit. I moved two clicks up and one click right. Well, the next shot (at POA 2, top of sheet) ended up 2 inches high and 2 inches LEFT. All my adjustments were less than 2 clicks at a time, and I got lucky and nicked my POA on the 6th shot. I left the scope alone and fired another, again nicking my POA. I wanted to take a 3rd shot, but I was already running late for something so I had to pack it in.
I am not sure why my groups suddenly shrank. In the prior week's range session, I had a 1 MOA group at 100 yards with the Scorpions, which is why I chose them to zero the scope. But when I hit that small group, it was after I had fired at least 10 or 11 shots of other bullets/sabots in an attempt to find what grouped the best.
So, my poll question is, should I clean my barrel, or not? I have already cleaned the breach plug, but I want to leave the bore alone. BH209 is supposed to be noncorrosive and non-hydroscopic. It was a dry day today, and I did have that layer of CLP on the bore, quite by accident, before shooting. What would you do?
And since they were part of my range session, I'll include two other small and undetailed reports.
The first is my bolt action slug gun, the Marlin 512 Slugmaster. Using open sights at 100 yards, I'm very satisfied with the group. I'm sure it would get a lot smaller if scoped. And I swear, the trigger on that thing is probably 12 pounds. No joke!
The second is my M1A Scout. I'll spare you the details of the problem I am experiencing (currently under investigation over at the M14 forum!), but the first 3-shot group ain't half bad, especially for Winchester white-box FMJ ball ammo (nutin' fancy there)! Aimpoint red dot sight (no magnification) at 100 yards.
10-17-2010, 10:28 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
7.62NATO
OK I voted to 'clean it' but myself I would not strip clean it till the end of the season. Even using Triple 7 - I do not strip clean till the end of the season.
Both BH and T7 are on the outer end of the corrosion cycle with BH being even farther out. BH does contain Potas and some sulpher and will get your barrel if left untreated over a long period of time.
I have always said I hunt with a semi-fouled barrel...
The qualification statement - if the bore were to get really wet inside during the season... at that point I would pull the load - dry the bore with dry patches and run a barely moist patch of Montana X-treme Bore conditioner...
OK I voted to 'clean it' but myself I would not strip clean it till the end of the season. Even using Triple 7 - I do not strip clean till the end of the season.
Both BH and T7 are on the outer end of the corrosion cycle with BH being even farther out. BH does contain Potas and some sulpher and will get your barrel if left untreated over a long period of time.
I have always said I hunt with a semi-fouled barrel...
The qualification statement - if the bore were to get really wet inside during the season... at that point I would pull the load - dry the bore with dry patches and run a barely moist patch of Montana X-treme Bore conditioner...
10-17-2010, 10:33 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,473
I definitely would pull the load and clean it if it were raining, snowing, etc and I know the bore got wet. Season starts in 2 weeks. Is 2 weeks a "long period of time"? 
Also, any thoughts on why my groups seem to come together as my barrel gets dirtier? The orange target started on about shot 20.
Also, any thoughts on why my groups seem to come together as my barrel gets dirtier? The orange target started on about shot 20.
10-17-2010, 10:52 AM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
7.62NATO
Mind you, I am not saying this is what you should do it is what I do....
I am shooting a Knight DISC Extreme 52 cal... our season opened on 10/10... on 10/9 I shot the gun to check POI. When I got home I ran a 2 slightly moist Montana X-treme BC and 3 dry patches. it was loaded with 120 grains of T7 that evening @ home and we went hunting in a down pour on Sunday. I know that the barrel never got wet on the inside and today that same load remains in the bore. Elk season ends at the end of the month. The gun will be cleaned at that time and I will switch to another Elite which will go through the same routine, Only it will not be cleaned for 2 months. It could be bore wiped on occasion but not cleaned.
BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder, it becomes more efficient as the load is compressed or retains a tight seal. It would an off the top guess but as your barrel became fouled it provided a tighter fitting sabot path. Which also might mean that you need to try a sabot that is a bit tighter than the one you are currently using...
I have an Omega, but mine is one of the originals and the bore is larger than some of the new Omegas... but the EZ's would be to loose for my gun. I need to shoot HPH-24's or Regular Harvesters...
Mind you, I am not saying this is what you should do it is what I do....
I am shooting a Knight DISC Extreme 52 cal... our season opened on 10/10... on 10/9 I shot the gun to check POI. When I got home I ran a 2 slightly moist Montana X-treme BC and 3 dry patches. it was loaded with 120 grains of T7 that evening @ home and we went hunting in a down pour on Sunday. I know that the barrel never got wet on the inside and today that same load remains in the bore. Elk season ends at the end of the month. The gun will be cleaned at that time and I will switch to another Elite which will go through the same routine, Only it will not be cleaned for 2 months. It could be bore wiped on occasion but not cleaned.
Also, any thoughts on why my groups seem to come together as my barrel gets dirtier? The orange target started on about shot 20.
I have an Omega, but mine is one of the originals and the bore is larger than some of the new Omegas... but the EZ's would be to loose for my gun. I need to shoot HPH-24's or Regular Harvesters...
10-17-2010, 11:41 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,473
I'm just paranoid when it comes to getting moisture in the barrel. Any time I am out and it rains significantly and I think there's a chance moisture got in the barrel, I wipe it down with a wet patch.
I hear what you're saying about the fouling creating a tighter fit for the sabot. I ended up zeroing with the Harvester crushed rib sabots with the Scorpion 260 gr bullet (as seen on the orange target). But they were as effortless to load on the last shot as they were on the first. It literally was effortless, though I always bear down with my weight when I am seating the bullet/sabot.
By comparison, the TEZ in its own sabot was MUCH harder to load, and it did not group well at all (as seen on the lower right portion of the first target posted).
I am very, very tempted not to clean the barrel. I just will not have a chance to go back to the range before the season starts. If I clean it, I need to fire it just to make sure I'm in the ballpark, and I won't be able to.
I hear what you're saying about the fouling creating a tighter fit for the sabot. I ended up zeroing with the Harvester crushed rib sabots with the Scorpion 260 gr bullet (as seen on the orange target). But they were as effortless to load on the last shot as they were on the first. It literally was effortless, though I always bear down with my weight when I am seating the bullet/sabot.
By comparison, the TEZ in its own sabot was MUCH harder to load, and it did not group well at all (as seen on the lower right portion of the first target posted).
I am very, very tempted not to clean the barrel. I just will not have a chance to go back to the range before the season starts. If I clean it, I need to fire it just to make sure I'm in the ballpark, and I won't be able to.
